EWEN ALEXANDER PIRIE

Interviewer: Rebecca Amundsen

Abstracter: W. Brent Coats

First Interview: 6 June 2012

TRACK 1

00:00 Interview introduction

00:00 Paternal GRANDFATHER JAMES PIRIE – From GLENMOUTH, EDINBURGH – OCCUPATION Farm Labourer – Details

01:58 Story about GRANDFATHER - Had “unfortunate love affair” – Girlfriend ELIZABETH MORRISON (sp?) pregnant – He emigrated to AUSTRALIA for GOLD – Unsuccessful - Relates

04:51 Left BENDIGO – Emigrated to NEW ZEALAND – From HOKITIKA to WAITAHUNA – Mining license - £300 in GOLD by c.1860 - Describes

06:04 Bought 1000 acres at ISLA BANK – HALF PARTNERSHIP with ANDERSON – Relative GEORDIE PIRIE arrived – Explains

07:38 Grandfather FARMING – Needed HOUSEKEEPER – His brother WILLIM PIRIE – Established CLOTHING and CHEMIST business – Describes

09:50 Self DESCRIBES his RESEARCH into CHEMISTS – WILLIAM applied for LICENCE – Explains

11:00 GRANDFATHER discovered ELIZABETH MOLLISON (sp?) still single – Mentions

11:56 WILLIAM’S chemist LICENSES – TOMBSTONE – Grew FLOWERS – Won COMPETITIONS – Also sold SUITS – WIFE died YOUNG – WILLIAM ACCUSED of causing DEATH – Describes

15:00 End of Track 1

TRACK 2

00:00 …No EVIDENCE of WILLIAM’S accusation – Describes

00:50 GRANDFATHER wrote to ELIZABETH – Proposed MARRIAGE – Arrived DUNEDIN c.1860s on ship CARIBOU – Had 10 year old SON – Self RESEARCHING son’s DESCENDENT’S son – Explains

02:50 Asks Interviewer about LIST in BOOK – One Hundred Years at Morton Mains – RECORDS of JAMES and ELIZABETH’S DESCENDENTS – Describes

04:22 JOHN PIRIE – Eldest SON of JAMES and ELIZABETH SECOND son – ALEXANDER - Self contacted CANADIAN researcher – Cannot find records – Possibility ELIZABETH pregnant during sea VOYAGE – Explains

08:18 DESCENDANTS of JAMES and ELIZABETH – JOHN – ALEXANDER – ROBERT - WILLIAM – ELIZABETH – Details

08:58 [Interview paused]

09:54 Describes list in BOOK c.1895 – GRANDFATHER started sons on FARM 10:36 FATHER – Agricultural CONTRACTOR – Left home because of “violently religious brothers” – Became VIOLENT and RELIGIOUS later – Described 1895 – NEW ZEALAND LAND COMPANY collapsed – Land available – Father BOUGHT at MORTON MAINS – Describes

12:15 Story about AUSTRALIAN BANK MANAGER named MORROW – Son MANAGED farms in difficulty – Son emigrated to NEW ZEALAND – Managed GLENARY STATION – Cut up land after LAND COMPANY collapse – SUPERVISED farms in area – Explains

15:00 End of Track 2

TRACK 3

00:00 …Self’s FATHER bought 400 acres FATHER named WILLIAM – Bought land c.1900 – Information in BOOK – Details

01:45 Describes BOOK

03:09 FATHER had MIXED FARM – Oats and dairy cows – Story in BOOK about father drying-out HOUSE TANK for engine during drought – Relates

07:50 Main priority was to pay BILLS – Story about Mother feeding SELF as child - LATE in making DINNER - FATHER angry about WORKERS not being FED on time – Self felt second place – Now philosophical about need to PAY people – explains

09:30 FATHER religious – Became CHRISTIAN during PLYMOUTH BRETHREN meeting – Joined local GOSPEL HALL – Describes

11:35 MOTHER in PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH – Father attended –Interrupted and corrected Minister– Advised to not return Mother joined BRETHREN – Had to be BAPTISED – Did not want to cause trouble – BRETHREN “violent” – Self has REJECTED Christian beliefs - Describes Helped to build WOODLANDS Brethren Gospel Hall - Mentions

15:00 End of Track 3

TRACK 4

00:00 …Father arrived home injured from building Hall – Mentions

00:40 Maternal GRANDFATHER MCKENZIE – PROTESTANT family Describes NORTHERN IRISH land confiscation – SCOTTISH ancestral land still in SCOTLAND – MCKENZIES possibly TENANT farmers - Describes

04:26 End of Track 4

TRACK 5

00:00 Maternal great-grandfather MCKENZIE – Lived in County DOWN (?) – NORTHERN IRELAND – Educated as farm SUPERVISOR – Details Story about uncle VISITNG FARM during FIRST WORLD WAR – Shocked at AMOUNT of ALCOHOL consumed – NORTHERN IRISHMEN “improved Scotsmen” – Recalls

02:30 Maternal GRANDFATHER youngest in family – ELDEST died young – Well educated on farms – Details Emigrated to NEW ZEALAND – Well fed on voyage – Having MILK and POTATOES together for meal luxurious on IRISH farms – Explains

04:45 POTATO BLIGHT – Possible reason for Grandfather’s EMIGRATION – Mentions Frugality of food available in IRELAND and SCOTLAND – Describes

06:38 Maternal GREAT-GRANDFATHER JOHN DRAKE – Emigrated from NORTHERN IRELAND – DUNEDIN to INVERCARGILL on ship Star (?) – Settled at EDENDALE farm Homestead – Describes

07:14 Maternal GRANDMOTHER JANE – Attended DAME SCHOOL at EDENDALE Estate – Explains

10:00 JOHN DRAKE d. 1895 [Interview interrupted] Bought 200 acres on OTERAMIKA - DEFERRED PAYMENT – Farm SPLIT after JOHN’S death – TOM DRAKE and mother got original piece – WILLIAM (BILLY) DRAKE got Self’s property – Details

13:02 Maternal GRANDFATHER ROBERT MCKENZIE – Emigrated from NORTHERN IRELAND – Brother liked JANE DRAKE – JANE pregnant to ROBERT – Quick marriage DESCENDANTS – Four girls first – Details

15:00 End of Track 5

TRACK 6

00:00 …1925 ROBERT in FINANCIAL DIFFICULTY – Father BOUGHT LAND in auction – Describes

03:20 Family bought small farms – Totaled 800 acres – Farm called DRAKES HILL – 7 Generations in family – Describes

04:35 Presently milking 470 cows – LAND EXTENDED after collapse of FINANCE COMPANIES - Explains

07:53 Self born at MORTON MAINS – Worked at FIVE RIVERS for health after WAR – Built part of house Father ran OTERAMIKA farm for run-off - Describes

09:00 Self BORN 8 January 1918 – [Interview paused]

End of Track 6

Second Interview: 7 June 2012

TRACK 7

00:00 First memories - SCHOOL education – WAITUNA CREEK school - Violent teacher JACK EWART – Insulted mother who complained about him - Self strapped “twice a day” – Did not enjoy school - Explains

04:16 STORY about student JACK PERRIAM – Joked about EWART – Relates

06:43 WAITUNA SCHOOL small – 16 to begin – Rose to over 45 – Only two teachers – Describes Left school for FARMING

08:31 Learned AUTOMOTIVE MECHANICS during ARMY period – Describes

09:07 CHORES at home – MILKING cows by age 10 – 9 to 10 per hour - Starting FIRE with CABBAGE leaves – Stacking KINDLING – Paid for BIRDS’ EGGS – Describes

11:38 Rode HORSE to primary school – Mother bought children BICYCLE – Describes

13:30 MOTOR VEHICLE – Story about father learning to drive – Bought 1918 DODGE from P H VICKERY – Explains

15:00 End of Track 7

  TRACK 8

00:00 …Father bought 1934 DODGE – Mother had to wash car – Describes

02:18 End of Track 8

TRACK 9

00:50 Self had “bad” WHOOPING COUGH as child – Never fully recovered – Describes

03:50 [Interview paused]

04:10 End of Track 9

TRACK 10

00:00 …WHOOPING COUGH – Low immune system – Father believed Self was “weakling – Later appreciated EWART’S teaching – Describes 02:27 [Interview paused]

04:58 RELATIONSHIP with FATHER – Was verbally abusive to self – considered a “loafer” Large DITCH ran through farm - WIRE TWIST shirt for workmen – Self wore heavy clothes to work (for health?) – Father unimpressed – relates

10:28 End of Track 10

TRACK 11

00:00 Year at SOUTHLAND TECHNICAL COLLEGE – Returned to FARM aged 14 – Considered Self unfit – Mother unhappy with abuse - Arranged for other work – Farmer COLIN SPEIGHT – WAGES £1/50 per week Worked behind OHAI – Describes

04:55 Older brother farmed – Great DRAUGHTSMAN – Self not as talented with horses – Last family member to buy TRACTOR – Describes Describes types of WORK HORSES [Indicates images of horses]

07:51 ANN (sp?) DIACK – NORTH ROAD DIACKs business – ANN chooses best giftware – Self buys from ANN – Self bought HORSE figure – Describes

11:20 Hierarchy of work horses – Shafters – Leading horse – Explains

14:11 Self learned to DROVE HORSES

End of Track 11

TRACK 12

00:00 Relates story about blacksmith’s dog – TRAINING ANIMALS properly – COMMUNICATING with horses – GELDINGS versus MARES for droving – Explains

03:05 Understood horses – Not “natural” like BROTHER – Describes

04:40 FATHER dislike TRACTORS – “Couldn’t breed them” – Mentions 05:30 Early TRACTORS not capable enough – HORSES became uneconomic – Describes

07:32 Father had own TEAM – Bred horses – Local GEORDIE MORDSLEY’s (?) stallion – Stud breeding – Mentions

09:58 Relates story of HORSE being BRED - Explains

12:51 MORTON MAINS ESTATE– BANK OF AUSTRALASIA developed ESTATE – Resold to farmers – Father bought last block - £3 per acre - Describes

15:00 End of Track 12

TRACK 13

00:00 …DITCHING and DRAINING – Steam backhoe – Explains

03:50 Petrol and Diesel ENGINES – Metallic compositions - Comparisons between original and modern engines – Describes

06:20 TRACTORS - Advances during Second World War – Comparisons with HORSES – Describes

8:00 Petrol ENGINES – Advances – Speed – J.E. WATSONS – American OLIVER tractors – Self recognised ADVANTAGES of TRACTORS – Farm CONTRACTING - Explains

11:50 Interested in MARGARET FLYNN - Not reciprocated – Describes 13:30 Interest in OLIVER tractor – H.E. MALHOP

15:00 End of Track13

TRACK 14

00:00 …HAROLD MALHOP – Imported DIESEL ENGINE – HEATED with BULB –- Developed COKE at low horsepower Explains

03:15 No RUBBER TYRES on OLIVER - Father bought one – Self wanted RUBBER tyres – Describes

05:58 [Interview paused]

06:34 Bought MINEAPOLIS-MOLINE TRACTOR for OWN FARM – Dangers of DRIVING FAST on roads – Describes CULTIVATING speed – Describes

09:44 Age Self bought tractors – Mentions

10:30 GREAT DEPRESSION – E.H. VICKERY – FOUR CARS SOLD during worst year – Mentions

11:35 Father not interested in CARS – RELIGIOUS perspective about farm animals – Self had different belief – Thought too soft by father – Kinder approach – Explains

14:42 DEERSTALKING – Taught by brother-in-law

15:00 End of Track 14

TRACK 15

00:00 …Brother-in law DEERSTALKED at GLENARAY STATION – Self began at young age – Showed good ability – Describes

02:25 Government CULLING DEER programme – 1934 - To IMPROVE ANTLER production – 1939 too many deer – Self joined EXTERMINATION PROGRAMME -

04:27 WELLINGTON EXHIBITION 1940 – Self RELATES STORY about his DOG – Herded father’s SHEEP into DITCH – Threatened to shoot dog – Self blamed sheep – FELL OUT with father – Explains

07:15 Self went to EXHIBITION – Stayed at RECTORS (sp?) boarding house - Describes

10:22 Applied for deer-culling – GEORGE YEREX – Given clothing and rifle – Evaluation for job – ENGINEER’S CAMP - LEWIS PASS – Self did not return home – Explains

13:18 Stayed in CHRISTCHURCH – Met deer culler – Bought equipment – Describes

15:00 End of Track 15

TRACK 16

00:00 Trained at CAMP – Instructor JACK MCNAIR - Taught how to bake bread – SKILLS for culling – Passed evaluation – Began CULLLING at WILBERFORCE RIVER – January to May 1940 – Shot 700 deer – Paid £3/16 per week – Given 3 rounds .303 ammunition – Describes

03:18 End of Track 16

Third Interview: 13th June 2012 TRACK 17

00:00 [No interview – ill health]

00:21 End of Track 17

TRACK 18

00:00 Left Wilberforce – Boarded CHRISTCHURCH with relative BOB BAILEY - BROGDEN’S NAVVIES - Describes

3:00 Story about BAILEY and married woman

05:47 Self WORKED at LYTTLETON port – Describes PORT RAILWAY

07:57 Date with BAILEY’S daughter – Argument among sisters - Mentions

11:25 [Interview paused]

11.37 Job with WILLIAM’S farm – BURNHAM – Left BAILEY’S - Mentions

13:30 Illness - Mentions

15:00 End of Track 18

TRACK 19

00:00 WILLIAM’S farm - Unusual SOIL TYPE – Describes

01:06 Volunteered for ARMY – Mother unhappy – FATHER needed HELP with HORSE TEAM - Describes

03:05 Joined ARMY 1941 – Father’s religious BELIEF opposed war – Self’s belief’s – Describes

05:11 Illness in BURNHAM MILITARY CAMP – Hygiene lectures – Describes

07:01 TRAINED as motor MECHANIC – GENERAL MOTORS – LOWER HUTT – Describes

10:24 COMBUSTION motors – Early cartoon instructions – Describes

11:37 Leave cancelled after PEARL HARBOUR attack – CHRISTMAS day PARADE – RACES – CAROLS - TRENTHAM CAMP – Relates

14:38 MOTOR training

15:00 End of Track 19

TRACK 20

00:00 TANKS – German compared to British – Mentions

01:19 Studying GM 2-STROKE DIESEL motor – FAIRMILE CLASS LAUNCHER boat motor – Rejected officer COMMISSION – Explains

04:30 ALICE CHALMERS – Irrigation motor design - TENNESSEE VALLEY AUTHORITY – Describes

08:03 INTERNAL COMBUSTION motor – 2-stroke versus 4-stroke - Describes

09:00 Met WIFE – JEAN HIEGHT COOPER - Leave from TRENTHAM camp – DAVE CARPENTER – YMCA – Describes Jean worked at EXHIBITION HOTEL – Served in WOMEN’S WAR SERVICE AUXILLERY (WWSA)

15:00 End of Track 20

TRACK 21

00:00 …Met JEAN at WWSA function – Discovered she had attended WYNDHAM school – Allowed Self to accompany her home – Describes

04:02 KILBERNIE JUNCTION - Long walk back to YMCA – Describes

06:22 End of Track 21

(Abstractor Judith Christie)

TRACK 22

00:00 Served in WORLD WAR TWO – EGYPT - very lucky. Not many rough episodes. MEETING WIFE first night on leave largely governed sex life in the army.

01.45 ARMY issued two KITBAGS – one you rammed all your clothes into, smaller kitbag which could contain an ARMY BLANKET. NO LEAVE during the week, would travel daily to GENERAL MOTORS if there was leave every weekend. Not soldiers, but experts in training. Bag given a lot of use. Once JEAN gave off duty nurses their tea was finished for the day – cost nothing, caught a TRAM and could go wherever they liked. Lot of time on FERRY crossing at night. Had to be back at the YMCA when not courting, and spent many nights watching the INTER ISLAND FERRY with Jean on the side of a nearby hill. Hilly country in WELLINGTON, lots planted in TREES. HILL NEAR ZOO, would spend a lot of time with Jean on blanket in amongst trees. Once was seen by a MAN WITH A DOG. Jean wanted to run, but self said No, as dog would be set on to them. Decided to sit still, as was a deer culler, so knew what to do. Man and dog passed self and girlfriend.

11.10 Met WIFE in the August and got ENGAGED in January. Informed friend DAVE CARPENTER that he was engaged. Was told he wouldn’t be married before Dave.

11.50 Within a day or two, Dave knew they would be sent to the ISLANDS. Were trained to OPERATE GARAGES AND WORKSHOPS to keep MOTORBIKES AND UTES running. Dave was put in charge of a garage in NOUMEA. Dave got married in the Pirie (?) Street Church in Wellington one night in May to AILSA CARPENTER. Ailsa’s sister was bridesmaid and self was best man. Had a flat in town and had a beer together, and walked down to the wharf. Dave was from the MATAI VALLEY IN NELSON, and they went on the ferry to Nelson for the weekend, and then Dave left for the islands. Dave was domineered by Ailsa. He worked as a MOTOR MECHANIC …

End of Track 22

TRACK 23

00.0 At the MARLBOROUGH COUNTY COUNCIL. [Dave] Caught a truck with seats at the back and travelled 30 miles to the county garage every day. Short time as NOXIOUS WEEDS INSPECTOR, but made many ENEMIES so gave it up. Many years getting up at 6.00 am every morning, and home at 4.30pm, when Ailsa would put him to work LETTING THE HENS OUT. His job to keep the hens from the FLOWER GARDEN. PENSION at 60 years of age – Dave was the most DOWN TRODDEN HUSBAND that self ever saw. Had ONE SON who went to UNIVERSITY – Dave paid part of wages to son, who didn’t get a job until he was 27 years old. When son on leave from University, he went to CHRISTIAN CAMPS to work as COOK. When aged 60, Dave arrived home from garage and threw his bag with his cut lunch in the door, and informed Ailsa he would NOT RETURN TO WORK THE NEXT DAY. Ailsa THREW HIM OUT. Row over FURNITURE etc. – two stacks on the floor. Dave sold his half to the second hand dealer. Then went into a BOARDING HOUSE.

06.45 JAPANESE complicated things. Self was notified was TRAVELLING OVERSEAS. 5,500 PERSONNEL boarded a 45,000 TONNE AQUITANIA, specially built prior to the TITANIC. BRITISH were ostensibly building a class of boat to be fast across Atlantic, but really for TROOP SHIPS. 300 WERE TRAINED MECHANICS which were in short supply. GERMANS had much better trained mechanics than us. Put men on the PROMENADE DECK OF THE AQUITANIA, which backed on to the FIRST CLASS BAR. BUNKS AND BEDS THREE DEEP. To prevent looking into the first class bar for the officers and females, window glass was painted but on the side that the men were on, and so they removed a bit of paint and could see everything going on. Bar lights out after midnight, men’s lights earlier than that. Some women travelling as first class citizens under the protection of the officers and the gentlemen. One night an officer was chatting up a woman who was a young NURSE AIDE. SOLDIER in the bunk above self was a SCOUNDREL, and at 11.00 pm used a DOUBLE HUNG WINDOW…

End of Track 23

TRACK 24

00.0 …and was yelling obscenities to the Officer who did not respond at the time. Next morning man was COURT MARSHALLED and probably ended up in jail. Self assured them that he had been asleep, but knew exactly what happened. Nothing said on the boat, but lights in the bar were TURNED OFF AT 9.00 pm thereafter.

02.20 Not sure how long on the BOAT, but BETWEEN THREE WEEKS AND A MONTH. Left WELLINGTON on a cold, grey day, travelled southwest. Rumours on boat that the AQUITANIA couldn’t go fast. Escorted by the ACHILLES, rumour that this boat couldn’t go as fast. Sea got rough south of NZ. Achilles left when no chance of Germans being around. Then altered course and next land sight was near PERTH in WA. AQUITANIA too big for PERTH HARBOUR, so anchored closed to ROCKNEST (?) Island, and REFUELED there. From there through INDIAN OCEAN into SUEZ CANAL area and Self had CHRISTMAS DINNER in the middle of the Indian Ocean in 1942. Aquitania had a quota of PROFESSIONAL COOKS. Had a slice of CHRISTMAS PUDDING, tasted fantastic.

08.30 Ended up in PORT HUIBIC (Sp?) at the end of the RED SEA where they put in at the SUEZ CANAL. BARGE came out with water on board. Arab person wearing an ALICATURE (?) which is like a pair of underpants. Kept saying ‘BACKSHISH’ (?) which means ‘SOMETHING FOR NOTHING’. Self tossed a lump of SALT WATER SOAP, and convinced person to eat it.

12.30 Marshalled to get on to a TRAIN, WHEELS DIFFERENT. Could walk under carriages standing up. Set off across EGYPT on a trip taking over 24 HOURS. Train kept slowing, picking up PEOPLE WALKING ALONG THE TRACKS, so lots of extras on the troop train, SELLING BOTTLES OF WHISKY etc…

End of Track 24

TRACK 25

00.0 …Whisky was actually COLD TEA

00.50 Train stopped at MAADI at a big NZ ARMY CAMP. Amenities included LAWRY HUT sponsored by family in HAWKES BAY who owned race horses – provided lectures and a meal, or e.g. a course in typewriting. Person called POWELL told self about horse owned by Lawry family, which self successfully backed. SALVATION ARMY also had establishment – cups of tea and community singing. Actual buildings, not tents.

03.40 CAMP only for New Zealanders in the desert. Many females from boat worked in the huts. CHURCH OF ENGLAND ran CHURCH ARMY HUTS – provided quiet time to write letters.

05.30 Before long in Egypt troops were taken up the DESERT IN TRUCKS. Self was in HOSPITAL and couldn’t go or excused duty, so was doing nothing. Self only active service man left in Maadi camp – so was attached to MAORI BATTALION. Maori were used for BAYONET WORK. Nobody knew what to do with self so QUARTERMASTER decided self should tag along with him.

08.40 Food from QUARTERMASTER STORES allocated to each unit. Quality of stuff varied, from ‘dog tucker’ to the best quality. Quartermaster showed FAVOUR to his own (Maori) troops.

11.00 Boarded TROOP TRAIN next day, not told where going. Travelled for 25 hours, ended up in PORT ALEXANDRINA on the banks of the Mediterranean. Trip was education. RAILWAY LINES built high, traffic on roads strange mixture of MOTOR VEHICLES WITHOUT BRAKES and MOBS OF GOATS. Goats would travel along railway lines.

13.30 Soldiers forbidden to have LIVE AMMUNITION behind lines, although Maori soldiers did have live ammunition, and spent time on the train taking pot shots at the GOATHERDS, getting close while not hitting them.

End of Track 25

TRACK 26

00.0 When arrived in ALEXANDRINA, boarded British troop ship. HAMMOCKS for sleeping.. Travelled 500 miles up to TRIPOLI. Self paraded sick with temperature of 106° - Army protocol was hospital if more than 102°. Told self needed a shower, put back on army uniform and into AMBULANCE, ended up in 64th SCOTTISH GENERAL HOSPITAL in ALEXANDRINA. STAFFED BY MEN. Coughing a lot. LADY FRYBERG AND ROWENA MOUNTBATTEN visited hospital. Lady Freyberg was driving an ITALIAN SPORTSCAR WHICH WAS A SPOIL OF WAR. Self had titivated the car at MAADI Camp, and talked about this with Lady Freyberg.

06.00 Three men from GHANA in ward with self. Had TUBERCULOSIS and SYPHILIS, but were not isolated. Lady Freyberg did not approve of men sharing ward with them.

08.00 Self taken on stretcher and put in an AMBULANCE and SCOTTISH ORDERLY put in charge and set off.

End of Track 26

TRACK 27

00.30 Scottish WARD ORDERLY slept in self’s bunk in ambulance, self on stretcher for 12 hours. Put into a ward in ??? - a village in CAIRO with JAPANESE GARDENS. 30 NZ NURSING SISTERS - when recovered from trip went for a walk in the village each day.

05.00 Suffered from chafing (would have used flax gum in NZ) so asked for medication and given bottle of purple liquid – METHYLATED SPIRITS and stung badly.

08.00 After some months was rehabilitated to NZ. When arrived at HOWLAND (sp?) CAMP was put in ward with AUSTRALIAN FLIGHT SERGEANT. Engaged to JEAN KNOX GILMOUR whose father had owned SOUTHLAND TIMES. Her MOTHER was a WELLINGTON ARISTROCRAT. Jean Knox Gilmour was 40 and unmarried, mother pulled strings and send daughter to Egypt to pour cups of tea and met the Australian who was 20 years younger. He was worried about the engagement. Wanted advice on whether to break off engagement. Sergeant had had a nervous breakdown. Jean told him that strings would be pulled to get him to Wellington when he was better and be provided with a job. Sergeant came from GUNDAWINDI (sp?) in Australia and was the only educated person in his family. Self tried to investigate when touring Queensland in later years. Surname MARTIN, WOOD MERCHANTS. Self’s advice was to return to Australia and tell Jean that she must follow him there.

End of Track 27

TRACK 28

00.0 Australian Sergeant put in eighteen months in NZ and then left Jean Knox Gilmour and went back to Australia alone.

00.15 At MAADI Camp there was a permanent GARAGE STAFF. Self was trained to be part of a LIGHT AID DETACHMENT – when there was action, retrieved SALVAGEABLE VEHICLES. Self never got to that stage, either going into or coming out of hospital. Worked with LADY FREYBERG’S car because was something extra that she wasn’t supposed to have.

2.30 Six months in EGYPT then returned to NZ on the WANGANUI. 15 ASTHMATIC MEN in a DECK ROOM. Below were the propellers and the amenities for hospital department. Self had met a person in TRENTHAM CAMP called IRWIN RUSSELL whose father was PLYMOUTH BRETHREN. When Irwin was called up, said he was a Christian – would serve but would not take up arms. A gentlemanly man, he was an orderly on the same hospital boat as self.

7.10 Two cases of SMALLPOX on boat, both German POWs. Irwin put in charge of night shift looking after them. Self was VACCINATED for smallpox six times, but did not take because he had worked with cows.

11.20 One morning discovered a DOCTOR AND A SENIOR NURSE had disappeared off boat. SOILED LINEN ROOM was part of boat. Irwin Russell discovered then in the room, and locked the door. Later others disposing of soiled linen opened the door and out walked the doctor and nurse. This was in 1943.

End of Track 28

TRACK 29

00.0 Staff on hospital boat whose job was to turn soldiers out in good condition. DENTISTS, TECHNICAL ADVISORS. Self was told that he would be helped to go to LINCOLN COLLEGE. Self wanted to go, but priority was to get married, so turned offer down. Wanted to get a job on an UPLAND FARM DRIVING A TRACTOR. Wanted a farm with deer on the property – deer leather could fetch £8 at that time. Applied for a job, driving tractor six days a week, but on Sunday deer stalking with no restrictions placed and deer would be his.

04.15 Most RIFLES for deer shooting had been confiscated for HOME GUARD,and first two deer were shot with A SHOT GUN WITH LEAD BALLS which was not very accurate. More money made on a Sunday than his six day job. FIVE RIVERS ESTATE – 5,500 acres of dead flat stony ground, with some good and some poor soil, and several hundred acres of bush. Owned by the DRUMMOND BROTHERS.

05.40 MARRIED on 23 November 1943, had four days in DUNEDIN at LEVIATHAN HOTEL on honeymoon and then took wife to Five Rivers. Lived in EX SAWMILL HUT which had had bags of chaff stacked in it for years and was full of mice. First job was to clean out the place. Self wallpapered it. No running water, a wood burning range, DUNNY was a 20ft deep well.

End of Track 29

Fourth Interview: June 20th 2021

TRACK 30

00.0 Self’s FATHER had purchased land owned by his GRANDFATHER-IN-LAW five miles from the home property and used it as an outlying property in 1925. NEIGHBOURING RELATIVE offered £7 for it. Self’s father made an offer of £12 for it, farmed it with no buildings on it. First job self’s brother had as a TEAMSTER was to pull a 10ft by 10ft hut on to property and MEN CAMPED in that. ARCHIE MCSPORRAN was a BUSH CARPENTER, and he built a LEAN TO STABLE/HAY BARN. Built where SPRING came out of the ground so very MUDDY. Land alive with RABBITS when father took it on, and self’s brother’s job was to reduce the rabbit population.

04.30 BROTHER’S BROTHER-IN-LAW was a DANISH SHIP’S CARPENTER and was a SKILLED WOODWORKER. No houses on any of the blocks and the two worked building houses. Farm was neglected. Owned a TRACTION ENGINE. Only WATER was a SPRING at the head of a gully. There was a WELL, lined with timber. Used a four gallon tin to fill with water. Brother CAMPED there for a year or two.

07.35 Father would plant SOFT TURNIPS on farm, eaten by BULLOCKS, which trampled grass out of existence.

08.15 When self took farm over, largely undeveloped. FENCES no good, two big GRAVEL PITS with 20,000 yards of low grade gravel taken out of them for ROAD BUILDING.

09.30 NO HOUSE on land when self took it. Bought for £1,923 which was £12 per acre. Had to follow REGULATIONS so needed to buy at that price even though not worth more than £9 per acre.

11.50 Father suggested self live in a NEARBY HOUSE for two or three years, owned by BILL CULL. Not fit to live in. Was eligible for SOLDER ASSISTANCE FROM GOVERNMENT, but regulations laid down were tight. SELF’S MOTHER said to find a carpenter to build a house, using what money he had. Self said needed money for SHEEP. Father insisted NO MORTGAGE on place. Discussed with PARENTS-IN- LAW, who were even harder up than self.

End of Track 30

TRACK 31

00.0 Decided to build half a HOUSE for £1023. Explains.

End of Track 31

TRACK 32

00.0 Had been COWS, hand milked. Self purchased 10 or 11 cows to help pay the store bill. Milk carted to dairy factory with horse and dray.

01.45 Father purchased a new HAY PRESS. Self BALED other people’s hay, which paid more than milking cows. Explains.

04.00 Went to FRUIT MARKETS in INVERCARGILL. RALPH MCKAY sold plums for 3/6d Wife who was breast feeding couldn’t milk cows because she had made baby sick from her eating plums. Stopped milking the cows from then on.

07.00 Latterly SON went into cows – borrowed $2 million to build a COW SHED and milked 350 cows first year or two. Lucrative.

07.50 Had HEAVY EQUIPMENT for baling. As people sold them, self PURCHASED FARMS. Had 160 acres to start with, now son is farming 800 acres. SON did the HEADING for other farmers’ WHEAT AND BARLEY. Explains.

11.00 First block of land build by self 90 acres. Son 16 years old at the time – TRANSFERRED OWNERSHIP to son. Explains. Other farmers hated self and family because they were doing something they couldn’t do.

13.15 Self added five hundredweight of LIME each year to the soil when he could afford it.

14.00 Joined FARMERS MUTUAL INSURANCE GROUP to keep insurance premiums down. Received advice from manager of Insurance Group about fertilizer. Explains.

End of Track 32

TRACK 33

00.0 Insurance Manager’s name WILFRID HARRIS. Self told to put on 2 tonnes every three years. Successful. Explains.

01.20 POTATOES grown by neighbour, who added LIME so potatoes scabby. Explains.

04.00 Self attended lots of training, including at INVERMAY.

04.15 PURCHASED OTHER FARMS, only original farmer left in the district.

04.50 Catholics had to attend Mass – priest was told that not good for young men. Explains.

07.30 Discussion re names of neighbouring farmers. BILL PERRIAM, successful gravel contractor. JONES, rough bush farmer. OTERAMIKA HALL built in 1928 for £800. Held a bazaar which raised £100 – Bill Perriam loaned £700 to build the hall. In 1945, when self came along, hall was in poor condition.

12.50 Most children lived a way from the SCHOOl, had to walk to school or rode on DRAFT HORSES.

13.35 Self PLANTED TREES on property, sawn and tantalized and turned wood into a wool shed.

14.00 Complications with BANK MANAGER. Nephew left school, became a SHEARER. Explains.

End of Track 33

TRACK 34

00.0 NEPHEW JOHN HEWITSON set himself up as a farmer on a BUSH FARM. Explains. Nobody would lend money on farm. Borrowed from AMP LIFE INSURANCE COMPANY at higher interest. Explains. Engaged so applied to AMP again refused to lend for a new house. Explains. Nephew’s mother ended up advancing money.

05.30 Nephew ended up very successful farmer, raised TWO TOOTHS. Explains.

06.20 Nephew set his son up in a farm. Built a new house with a security light, came on at 5.00 am. Nephew’s name is JOHN HEWITSON. Good at settling disputes. Champion BASKETBALL PLAYER, ran tournaments. Had cancer at age 67 and died three months later. Nephew’s mother JENNIE died in PEACEHAVEN.

11.20 Self’s family bought a DODGE CAR in 1918. Sister put in charge of self in pram. D H Vickery, told sister to give him the baby and motor car would be free.

12.30 Sent more FAT LAMBS away than anyone else in the district. SON now owns JOHN HEWITSON’S FARM – put a sharemilker on that farm. Son at WAIMUMU running sheep.

14.15 Self lived for five years at ALEXANDRA. Son started school (not intelligible – sick child?)

End of Track 34

TRACK 35

00.0 Took son to DOCTOR, sent to ROXBURGH HEALTH CAMP and visited him on a bus. Son the only one who didn’t cry when parents turned up – age 6. Explains. Son now milks 560 cows, so thrived.

02.20 SHEARING CONTRACTORS ASSOCIATION – article in the paper suggesting stop shouting the shearers. Doesn’t approve of drinking. Comment about YOUNG WOMEN getting PREGNANT.

03.50 Raised money FOR LOCAL HALL – FARMER SUPPLIED SHEEP. Son had between $30,000 and $40,000 in the Building Society. Explains.

06.00 When in Egypt, smoked a pipe and was continually in hospital with lung problems. Dosed with EPIDRENE. Told to knock off smoking. Explains. Tobacco was 10d for a tin. Sailed home on the MAUNGANUI. Had to spend money in Egypt before leaving and had made money through PHOTOGRAPHY. Bought 50 tins of DARK HAVELOCK TOBACCO before leaving and gave it to his BROTHER-IN-LAW – who died at 77 years old.

10.10 Was recently lent a book explaining medical problems, including diabetes treatment. Explains. Two sisters had diabetes, and father probably had it. Mother also had it mildly, helped by man called CALDER (?) in PALMERSTON NORTH. Mother died a horrible death – sister Ginnie (?) looked after her in other sister’s house in Invercargill.

End of Track 35

TRACK 36

00.0 Mother died at 77. Self knows that he is going to die, but does not know when. Second oldest PIRIE BLOODLINE ever in New Zealand.

01.30 Came INTO CARE four years and six months ago. Haven’t worked on farm for 30 years. Son milking cows on farm now. Explains. Talks about MONEY SYSTEM and the GOVERNMENT. Explains.

04.00 NEIGHBOURING FARMER asked son if he wanted to buy his farm of 170 acres. Son contracted to lease farm for $60,000 annually and runs cows on it. Explains.

06.30 First person to put COBOLT on the farm by air. After the WAR, some men bought TIGER MOTHS, and developed a system where 2cwt of cobolt could be put in a hopper to TOPDRESS the farm. Explains.

08.20 Son was friendly with owner of TITIROA TRANSPORT, MICHAEL DOBBIE who helped him to topdress new block - 250 tonnes in one day.

10.25 Explains MANUFACTURE OF FERTILIZER. QUARRY at GREENHILLS. MOSSBURN FERTILIZER was softer. Got on the wrong side of the fertilizer industry. Explains.

End of Track 36

TRACK 37

00.0 Manager of fertilizer resigned, and subsequently died. Describes unnamed person. Explains role in FEDERATED FARMERS.

End of Track 37