Person recorded: Harold Charles (Snow) Burrows

Date: 5 July 2004

Interviewer and abstractor: Morag Forrester

Tape counter: TCM 939

Tape 1 Side A starts

004: Opens discussion stating his full name is HAROLD CHARLES BURROWS and he was born 1934 in EAST GORE where his family had a NURSERY (plants). (In an earlier conversation he explained the nickname SNOW arose from his having white-blonde hair as a child and into early adulthood).

017: States his FATHER, LAWSON BURROWS, was also from GORE and that his FATHER’S (GRANDFATHER CHARLIE BURROWS) family emigrated from ENGLAND (in the 1870s) when he was about seven years old. (Newspaper cutting in file suggests three years old.)

021: Mentions his MOTHER, CORA LAWRENCE, was from WAIKAIA.

027: Replies that he lived in GORE till he was about seventeen. Adds that he had visited TE ANAU before then as his FATHER had a BOAT that they used for fishing jaunts on the lake.

038: Says he had three BROTHERS and two SISTERS - one BROTHER, RAY, died at a relatively young age in HAMBURG, GERMANY, following an accident on board the ship to which he’d been apprenticed.

048: Affirms he’s the eldest child, followed by RAY, twins BEV and WILSON, KAY and KEITH.

054: Agrees that being the eldest, he was probably given more responsibilities than the others in the family, particularly organising domestic arrangements in TE ANAU when his FATHER took people out on the lake (before FIORDLAND TRAVEL was officially launched in 1948).

059: Mentions going to BOARDING SCHOOL in GORE (after the family moved to TE ANAU). Adds that after moving from GORE (in 1948) all six CHILDREN went to TE ANAU SCHOOL, thereby averting its closure due to a school roll of only four or five. Names the teacher as JACK ISAACS.

069: Recalls going to school barefoot in winter because the family didn’t have much money.

077: Replies that his previous schooling was at EAST GORE PRIMARY adding that his first day there was memorable only because he was involved in a traffic accident. Explains that without thinking, he ran in front of a baker’s van and “I ended up between the wheel and mudguard”.

086: Remembers digging trenches at the air raid shelters in the school grounds as part of preparations against feared JAPANESE invasion while war continued in the PACIFIC.

092: Mentions his FATHER had enlisted in the AIR/SEA RESCUE SERVICE and it wasn’t until the end of the war in the PACIFIC in 1948 that LAWSON decided to shift the family to TE ANAU.

097: Considers the NURSERY business had been performing quite well. Replies his MOTHER didn’t work “she’d a big enough job bringing us up, I think (laughs)”. Adds that he suffered eczema till he was about twenty-two years old, which he says wouldn’t have helped (her workload).

106: States his parents at first were strict PRESBYTERIANS although things changed when they moved to TE ANAU. Comments his FATHER hardly drank alcohol before the shift adding that perhaps in order to win business that had to change.

113: Says that when they first moved, they still had the business at GORE and hired managers to run both the nursery and the town centre shop.

120: Responding to question, says he must have been quite young (under ten) when he first visited TE ANAU because he recalls that as children, they were tied onto the boat (to prevent them falling in).

131: Mentions there used to be fish called “COCKLE BILLIES” which they used to scoop out of the water with a tin by the hundreds. Says they were similar to goldfish (adding their numbers have markedly reduced).

139: Replies that when they moved to TE ANAU there were only about fifteen or twenty other permanent residents in the town.

142: Referring back to their home in GORE, says it and the BURROWS BROS NURSERY were on HAMILTON ST., which is all residential housing now.

147: Comments that the decision to move was a unilateral one on the part of his FATHER and that at first, his MOTHER and the family stayed on in GORE. Adds it wasn’t long before he was dispatched to do the cooking and occasionally drive the boat.

152: States their first home in TE ANAU was a transported army hut on the site of the present RADFORD MOTELS. “We used to cook outside with a bit of a lean-to over the top.”

159: Replies the hut was a two-roomed building and when the rest of the family joined them a similar hut was added on to accommodate them all.

166: Describes neighbouring dwellings as holiday cribs in the scrub and says each one had individual lake access for their boats. The road, he says, was gravel bordered on both sides by manuka scrub which obstructed views of the waterfront.

174: Adds that on the house side of the road, it was possible to bag a DEER or WILD PIG only a few yards into the scrub “about where QUINTIN DRIVE is now”.

180: Mentions his FATHER’S discovery of the TE ANAU GLOWWORM CAVES saying that LAWSON had decided to fossick about on the lake after he’d been told there were caves in the area.

183: Affirms his FATHER started FIORDLAND TRAVEL with WILSON CAMPBELL and ROBBIE ROBB.

186: States his FATHER and WILSON CAMPBELL had been “great friends” in GORE where CAMPBELL had a PRODUCE MART and AUCTION business. Adds that ROBBIE ROBB was a cousin of WILSON CAMPBELL’S.

199: On setting up the new business, replies that LAWSON’S boating experience consisted of just having his own private vessel. Says the business partners bought a boat called the LORNA – which they changed to the QUINTIN MACKINNON, using it for tours.

204: Recalls another vessel, the RANGI (owned by the SPEIGHTS). Doesn’t know what’s happened to either vessel since.

206: A third and larger vessel was bought, he says, from DR. ORBELL, called the TAKITIMU. Adds that later, they bought the government-owned steamer, the TAWERA, after having first leased it “for a dollar a year”.

214: Says that at first they mainly did DEER-STALKING trips, taking hunters into the NORTH ARM (FIORD) or SOUTH ARM (FIORD) of the lake and dropping them off, then picking them up again at a pre-arranged time.

218: Mentions that in summer, they used to organise regular dances at DOCK BAY by carrying a dance floor across, installing lights round it and providing a water taxi for those taking part.

222: Also talks about the PIRATE TRIPS on the TAWERA during which his FATHER would construct a GANGPLANK and then prod a (willing) victim with a sword over the side of the vessel while SNOW would be waiting in a dinghy ready to pull them out of the water. Adds these trips were “quite popular”.

233: Affirms he was about fifteen when he was sent over from GORE to help in the new business venture. Recalls dropping the DEER STALKERS off as well as TRAMPERS.

234: Mentions they also had a boat and a walkway in the HIDDEN LAKES and used to take people over to the biggest of these, called TE WAIOPANI and the walkway would lead to the SOUTH ARM (FIORD).

240: States that he was among those who built the walkways out of timber cut from the bush. “In those days (prior to the formation of the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK) you could just go ahead and do it, you didn’t have to ask anybody.”

250: Recalls his FATHER would get MINISTRY OF WORKS staff to help construct the walkways on their weekends off in return for a couple of beers. Says there was also a SAWMILL in their backyard which was used to saw the logs into planks for the wharfs. “It was a pretty HEATH ROBINSON affair but it worked.”

255: Says the fare for the trip round the HIDDEN LAKES was probably one or two dollars on a passenger launch registered for thirty passengers. Also mentions they did another trip up to the GORGE FALLS on the SOUTH FIORD.

264: With the DEER stalkers, says they would go into the bush for sometimes up to three weeks carrying all their supplies in with them. But all that came to an end, he says, once HELICOPTERS were involved in the VENISON RECOVERY INDUSTRY.

274: Referring to the three-way partnership, says WILSON CAMPBELL would visit TE ANAU at weekends and ROBBIE ROBB, who joined slightly later, was mainly involved in running launches to the CAVES.

282: Mentions that during the winter months, they would do their own repair and maintenance of the vessels. Adds that his UNCLE, BERT BURROWS, who was an engineer in AUCKLAND, spent one winter putting new steel plates along the bottom of the TAWERA. Says his UNCLE then stayed on as engineer for the company.

296: Replies that he was SKIPPER of the TAWERA for about ten years. Says FIORDLAND TRAVEL continued its run taking MILFORD TRACK walkers from the jetty at TE ANAU to GLADE HOUSE during the season.

305: Says the trip would take up to four hours or longer in rough weather. Once the wharf was built at TE ANAU DOWNS (in the 1970s), he says, the journey time was cut by a couple of hours.

327: Mentions a further early addition to the fleet of vessels; the purpose-built JAMES MCKERROW designed by his FATHER and WILSON CAMPBELL and registered to take about fifty passengers.

341: Referring to JETBOATING trips on the WAIAU RIVER, recalls being “KING of the river at one stage.” Explains they first offered half-hour trips down to what were called the ISLAND RAPIDS – caused by a large rock in the middle of the fast-flowing river.

346: Uses the term HAMILTON-turn and explains what it is.

355: Recalls the company had two JETBOATS and that these trips were very popular as were trips across the lake when it was a bit rough and the driver would manoeuvre the vessel side on to the crest of a wave and slip down again.

358: Adds that the local TOP-DRESSING AIRCRAFT and FLOATPLANE pilots would sometimes join in the fun by swooping low over the vessels. “They wouldn’t be allowed to do that now but, yeah, it was great.”

364: Explains the different JETBOATING trips they offered including weekend sojourns down the WAIAU to TUATAPERE where they’d stay overnight and then do the return trip the next day.

369: Affirms these trips all took place during the 1950s and 1960s. FIORDLAND TRAVEL was sold in 1954 to LES HUTCHINS who, with his wife and young family, was living in MANAPOURI.

374: Does not recall anyone being injured on these trips, although admits that occasionally the vessels didn’t come off so lightly with things like the steering wheel breaking as he went tearing upriver. Or, he says, perhaps a boat would end up with a hole knocked into the hull.

400: Referring to the dance parties at DOCK BAY, says they were very popular. “Heaps of people used to go over.” And that a few couples would go off into the bush and would have to be rescued the next day, somewhat shamefaced for being caught out.

407: Says he was still at school when he first started helping out at weekends, and remembers having to do the cooking after school during the week. Adds that “often had to go round to BLUEGUM POINT with a TILLEY lantern when he (LAWSON) was coming home at night because there was no lights….” Continues that his FATHER would then signal to say he’d seen the light at the POINT and was therefore okay about coming into harbour.

414: Recalls one time when his FATHER lost his bearings in the dark while steering the JAMES MCKERROW and headed towards the HIDDEN LAKES and ran into a rock which put a hole in the hull.

Tape 1 Side A runs out

Tape 1 Side B starts

003: Explains that after attending primary school, he went on to boarding school as was normal for children then. So, he says, his SISTERS went to WAITAKI HIGH, his BROTHERS went to OTAGO BOYS and he went to GORE HIGH SCHOOL.

011: Mentions he would get transport home at weekends from WILSON CAMPBELL.

022: States that although they first lived in army huts, his parents did have a house built on the adjacent site about fifteen years later.

033: Describes the army huts consisting of one bedroom with bunks for the CHILDREN and another smaller one for his parents: there was a lounge and a small kitchen off to the side

038: Says that later on, his FATHER built an extra bedroom so that the boys and girls would have separate sleeping areas.

047: Referring to the other people living in TE ANAU when they first shifted, says they included the MCIVORS and the BEERS, adding that the latter had a WATER-WHEEL which would generate power so people could get their 12-volt batteries charged up there.

071: Says there were also the MCGREGORS and the PLATOS.

099: Replies he finally left school at the age of seventeen (1951) and took up an apprenticeship in MOTOR MECHANICS at BALFOUR MOTORS. Says he had to give that up after four years because of contracting dermatitis.

105: His next step, he says, was becoming an apprentice CARPENTER to TE ANAU BUILDER, ALF EXCELL. Later, he adds, he moved to AUCKLAND to work for FLETCHER CONSTRUCTION.

115: On his return, he continues, it was back to passenger launches but this time in MILFORD SOUND where he worked for about seven years before doing the JETBOAT trips (as previously mentioned) in the early 1960s, then it was on to the CAVES trips followed by the GLADE HOUSE run.

121: Explains that in those days a passenger launch driver had to attend NAVIGATION SCHOOL in WELLINGTON for training that was self-paid.

143: Mentions getting MARRIED in his early thirties after he’d been living in MILFORD SOUND for several years.

149: Recalls working for the THC (TOURISM HOTEL CORPORATION) and that the SKIPPERS had to mingle with the guests for dinner and drinks.

160: Says he was SKIPPER of the ANITA BAY. Adds that in those days, by late afternoon all the day trippers would be gone, leaving him time to clean up the boats etc.

170: States that he got the job after it was discovered that the previous skippers had been spending the takings and shouting drinks at the bar for all and sundry, including the fishermen. So they weren’t too pleased at the cleanup and, he says, at first they created a few obstructions.

189: While he explains one such incident, adds that he later got on well with many of the fishermen there.

196: Considers there was some rivalry between the fishermen and the launch operators in those days. Gives some explicit examples of how this rivalry was played out.

211: Explains the ANITA BAY had been a private vessel converted for passenger use and was registered for about eighty. Affirms that he carried trippers on the journey along the fiord out to sea and back again.

217: Recalls that in those days the ANITA BAY LIGHTHOUSE was gas-powered so he would also take MINISTRY OF (PUBLIC) WORKS staff back and forth as they changed the gas bottles.

223: In the winter, he says, he would sometimes take hotel staff out on fishing trips around the fiord.

231: (In the early 1970s) says he would be asked to SKIPPER the boats during the winter to allow the regular staff time off. So, his WIFE, DIANA and their first child, KERRY, would join him and they had the run of the HOTEL.

236: Mentions that when he later worked for FIORDLAND TRAVEL, he and DIANA would go in to MILFORD and run its launch while staying on the company-owned HOUSEBOAT when the regular SKIPPER was on leave.

242: Referring back to when he first went in to MILFORD in the mid-50s, says the trip out to the SOUND would cost about five pounds per passenger. Recalls that on his first day he took about 2000 pounds - “this was unheard of”.

250: Remembers getting tips from travellers - “that would pay for my booze and I’d save all my wages”.

256: On access into MILFORD (the road through the HOMER TUNNEL opened in 1954), he says some people who worked in MILFORD were issued a key to the road gate during the avalanche season (MAY to OCTOBER).

263: On this theme recalls reaching the HOMER TUNNEL and having to break off icicles in order to get through without damaging the car roof. “Seeing all the snow around and the odd wee avalanche coming down, ’s’ lovely (laughs).”

269: Replies that apart from POP ANDREWS (a supervisor for the MINISTRY of WORKS), he knew of no-one who got caught in an avalanche while travelling the route.

273: Agrees that some people without keys would break through the road gate or drive around it.

276: Mentions that he would get a “rack-up” from TERRY O’LAUGHLIN - stationed at the KNOBS FLAT MoW road maintenance camp - if he failed to drop by on his way in or out of MILFORD.

284: Recalls one of the THC MILFORD HOTEL managers was a SWISS national called GAFAELLA.

286: Also recalls some of the fishermen, naming the MARLEYS from GREYMOUTH, and someone nicknamed HURRICANE HARRY.

302: Talking about his MARRIAGE, he admits to being forgetful about dates (September 1965)). Says DIANA’S maiden name was MATTINSON and she was born and brought up on a farm in ENGLAND.

306: Explains that DIANA had spent a few years touring AUSTRALIA before arriving in NEW ZEALAND and that they met while she was doing a working holiday job at the THC HOTEL and so would sometimes be among the staff on the passenger launches.

320: Says they got engaged a few months after a rather precarious incident on one of the launch trips.

324: Replies that the wedding was held at the THC HOTEL and that it was while they were on honeymoon that the hotel was destroyed by fire.

330: States they now have three CHILDREN, two BOYS and a GIRL. Says the second child, BRYCE, is a computer programmer living in SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA. The youngest, SCOTT, is living in AUCKLAND working as a contract supervisor for a heating company. The eldest, KERRY, lives in TE ANAU and has a young family.

337: Affirms his CHILDREN went to school in TE ANAU, commenting that they were also able to attend high school in the town (FIORDLAND COLLEGE was built in 1975). Adds that the two BOYS went to OTAGO UNIVERSITY.

347: Referring back to his FATHER and his partnership in FIORDLAND TRAVEL, affirms that the business was sold in 1966. Says by then there were only two partners, LAWSON and WILSON CAMPBELL, following the death a few years before of ROBBIE ROBB.

350: Says LAWSON had by then gone cruising in his yacht and the business was being managed by WILSON in the meantime. Suggests that perhaps the purchaser, LES HUTCHINS, had made a good offer to prompt him to sell.

355: Agrees his parents had moved to the NORTH ISLAND by then too. Adds the boat was berthed in WHANGAREI where LAWSON also had some apartments which he sold on return from a cruise round the PACIFIC ISLANDS. Says LAWSON ended his days in a retirement village in AUCKLAND.

365: Responding to question, affirms there had been some controversy surrounding the sale of the business. Says LAWSON believed it was being run down prior to any sale. Adds there were other conflicts between his FATHER and WILSON CAMPBELL, in particular, over the discovery of the TE ANAU GLOWWORM CAVES.

375: Replies that it was his FATHER that first found the CAVES, although he does concede that WILSON CAMPBELL discovered the less well-known AURORA CAVES nearby. Explains the events leading up to LAWSON’S discovery.

383: Says he went to the area with his FATHER the next day, though they didn’t enter the CAVES. It wasn’t till a few days later, he says, accompanied by GEORGE POLLARD, that LAWSON walked through and decided then to open up the CAVES.

387: Explains they first had to put walkways through, not realising the risk of flooding. Says he was among the volunteers that helped build them but floods washed the lot out. So they had to salvage the situation.

392: Describes how when they first opened the CAVES up to visitors, there was no boat access into the GLOWWORM GROTTO. Instead people climbed a ladder and hopped from rock to rock to get to it, with the only lighting being by TILLEY lanterns.

396: Adds the entrance wasn’t very high, so people had to crawl in which wasn’t too popular with some visitors.

401: Admits the water in the CAVES was freezing and that sometimes to warm up, they would take a swim in the lake on their way out.

407: In order to expand the entrance way, says one of the MINISTRY of WORKS employees used explosives to blast away some of the rock.

416: Describes the CAVES as a “great big cavern with an underground stream”.

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Tape 2 Side A starts

005: Continues discussion of the CAVES discovery explaining how LAWSON and WILSON (nicknamed CAM), went about developing them as a tourist site.

019: Believes FIORDLAND TRAVEL would have been quite a different business if the CAVES hadn’t been discovered.

027: Agrees that by his discovery, LAWSON played a major role in the development of TE ANAU.

033: Replies that many of those earlier scenic trips around LAKE TE ANAU “just don’t go now” mainly because they’re not seen as financially viable by FIORDLAND TRAVEL which still has the concessions (from the DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION).

039: Mentions ferrying horses on the boat for use on the MILFORD TRACK, describing how sometimes the boat would roll in choppy waters but it would be made worse by the horses which would move from one side of the boat to the other.

045: Explains the horses carried supplies to the POMPOLONA HUT in the days (1940s) before helicopters were available. Although he adds that tractors and trailers were also used to replace the horses.

063: Says LAWSON didn’t comment about his former business after it was bought over.

066: Mentions LAWSON had a good friend, BILL HEWETT, who was a top-dressing pilot in MILFORD, saying he used to land on the road in FERGUS SQUARE, TE ANAU, and rouse LAWSON from his slumbers to ask him for use of his car to get to MOSSBURN.

[BILL HEWETT, with his wife and young family, was based in the NORTHERN SOUTHLAND town of MOSSBURN. Born in DUNEDIN, he had trained as a fighter pilot in WWII. On his return after the war in the PACIFIC, he launched a number of enterprises involving his pilot skills. He was one of three men who set up SOUTHERN SCENIC AIRWAYS but pulled out of the partnership. He then formed the FLYING KIWIS AIR CIRCUS which he took to AUSTRALIA. It was after this that he and his wife returned to MOSSBURN where he started the first aerial top-dressing venture in SOUTHLAND and OTAGO, called HEWETT AVIATION. It also later took passengers and freight but was sold in 1966. Ill-health eventually brought an end to BILL HEWETT’S flying and he died in 1973 at the age of 49.]

075: Mentions he and his brothers enjoyed taking trips with HEWETT over MACKINNON PASS because he’d allow them to fly the plane back, pretending to be asleep.

095: Talks about HEWETT having a freight-carrying plane called the FLYING BOX CART which he used to transport produce from CENTRAL OTAGO and describes some of the antics he got up to in it.

110: Describes how one of the CHARTRES (of TE ANAU DOWNS) went with HEWETT to AUSTRALIA to help out with his AIR CIRCUS.

132: Replies that he wishes now he had taken flying lessons adding that he might have made more money as a pilot than a SKIPPER.

139: Referring back to FIORDLAND TRAVEL, says his BROTHER, KEITH, also worked for the company, after it was sold. Adds that his SISTERS worked as hostesses but gave that up to join their FATHER on his yacht cruises.

146: Says he gave up working for FIORDLAND TRAVEL about twenty years ago (1984).

157: Comments that the business had become more commercialised. Adds that there were more passengers on each trip and that SKIPPERS were expected to take people out even during rough weather.

164: Describes occasions when he’d be at the wheel, see a huge wave ahead, slow down, but the water would roll over the bow of the boat and smash the front windows in. So he would have to turn round and go back to base to have new glass put in.

183: Talks about how kerosene was used to start the TAWERA up, adding that LAWSON would keep a WHISKY STILL in the funnel of the vessel to make HOKONUI WHISKY.

187: Says LAWSON got involved in distilling as a result of friends asking him to procure them some HOKONUI WHISKY. States LAWSON’S brother (BERT) made a STILL to ferment the liquor, which he says was never sold for cash.

202: On the issue of any memorable dramas on the boats, recalls one night on the lake when a strong westerly was blowing out of the SOUTH ARM and the launch was being pushed further towards the UPUKERORA RIVER. Thinking he was getting too near the bank, he put the search light on and “got a helluva fright” at what looked like rocks in front of him.

210: Adds that being a twin-engined vessel, he put one engine ahead, the other astern and was able to turn quickly round back across the lake. Thinks otherwise, they’d have come unstuck.

228: Other incidents he recalls include occasionally damaging the propeller by hitting a log, but says it would mean heading back to base with just one motor operating.

254: Another time he recalls was when all eighty CAVES TRIP passengers were nauseous and vomiting (usually started by just one or two). And it took days for the smell to clear.

264: Referring back to the development of FIORDLAND TRAVEL, says it began as a family-owned and run operation but that changed when BRYAN HUTCHINS took over as CHIEF EXECUTIVE. Says while he and BRYAN are still good friends, he didn’t like working for him and it wasn’t long before he and his BROTHER, KEITH, left the company. “New broom sweeping clean, I suppose.”

282: Moving on to his home in MATAI STREET, says he and his family have been there for about thirty years. “Often thought about going away, but always come back again (laughs).”

288: Discussion switches to the subject of RITCHIE AIR SERVICE, set up in TE ANAU by IAN RITCHIE. Says RITCHE started off with a CESSNA PLANE, then had DOMINI FLOATPLANES. Mentions that TE ANAU pilot, BILL BLACK, worked for RITCHIE and that BLACK had an accident with one of the aircraft near LAKE GUNN.

299: Says the airstrip was about where the TE ANAU CLUB stands (others have said it was further over towards LUXMORE DRIVE).

304: States RITCHIE was a fighter pilot during WWII, and that like many others, when war was over, he came back to NEW ZEALAND and started up his own business. Mentions RITCHIE, who came from GORE, is now based somewhere near CHRISTCHURCH and that he was another good friend of LAWSON’S.

321: Replies that his MOTHER didn’t have much to do with the business, not least because she didn’t think too much of boats. Adds that she died as a result of problems due to hypertension, which he briefly says could have started when he was born (something to do with childbirth complications).

331: Recalls that his MOTHER played the lead role in their upbringing because his FATHER was working all the time. Mentions another woman, GUY ANDERSON (who later married BILL ADAMS) was also a key influence in their childhood.

345: On this theme, though, he says his FATHER’S attitude was “do as I do” and that as children, he and his siblings had to comply with LAWSON’S wishes on matters such as careers and employment.

348: States he and DIANA were different and allowed their CHILDREN free rein to choose whichever career they wished. Says they now make more money than he ever did.

367: On the development of TE ANAU, says it’s already a much bigger place than when he first arrived and is projected to quadruple in size within ten years. Says it’s not as friendly as it used to be.

373: Recalls using TILLEY lamps and candles as well as diesel-generated power before the town linked up to the NATIONAL GRID (in 1958). At that time, he says, he was in MILFORD so missed out on all the LIT-UP parties. Says at MILFORD, they had diesel-generated power.

381: The telephone, he says, was in the TE ANAU HOTEL. There was no doctor, he says, until later and even then that was only a once-a-week visit (from LUMSDEN). Adds that the bus from LUMSDEN was also a once-a-week service so everyone turned out to see it arrive and leave again.

388: Describes as “quite an adventure” getting to GORE or INVERCARGILL, even when the family did have its own car: it was a gravel road so it could take all day to get to GORE.

402: Unconnected to this, talks about how one of the old boilers for the TAWERA (when it was still steam-powered) is buried in a pit under the WESTPAC BANK building. “It was pushed in there because it was thought it was never needed when the TAWERA was changed to diesel.”

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Tape 2 Side B starts

002: Opens with him describing the days of loading DEER carcasses from various pick-up sites on the LAKE TE ANAU shoreline and unloading them at BLUEGUM POINT.

049: States that as a young person he didn’t think it was uncommon that he was expected to work all hours without time off.

056: As for social life, says when he was younger it was a case of making your own entertainment, adding that he would sometimes go pig-hunting around TE ANAU DOWNS.

063: Recalls that as kids he and his BROTHERS, along with the MCIVOR boys, made an underground hut in scrub where QUINTIN DRIVE now runs. They forgot about it until years later when the bulldozer driver contracted to clear the scrub said he had a “helluva job” getting the hut out.

080: On present social activities, says he’s a member of the GOLDEN AGE CLUB.

090: Mentions in the summer months he cleans rental cars, so he agrees he’s not really retired.

102: States having visited overseas a few times, places such as AUSTRALIA, FIJI, ENGLAND.

112: Referring back to the development of the BASIN, believes it should not be done on a piecemeal basis as it seems to be at present, he thinks. Adds he doesn’t want it “to end up like another QUEENSTOWN either, so, eh, just keep hoping”.

Interview ends

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