John Armstrong Saunders and Francis Gloria Saunders

Interviewer: Janice Templeton

Abstracter: Amanda Corrigan

First Interview: 08 April 2008

00:00 Interview identification

00:40 JOHN ARMSTRONG SAUNDERS [JAS]

01:03 FRANCIS GLORIA SAUNDERS [FGS]

01:16 JAS: Born in 1925

01:23 FGS: Born in 1925

01:46 JAS: Father JOHN SAUNDERS born SOUTH HILLEND at home - Father’s occupation FARMER – Mother ALLISON LINA SAUNDERS née HARDY born GLADFIELD – mother’s occupation HOUSEMAID – Parents met through mother’s sister

03:10 JAS: SIBLINGS Eldest DOROTHY CLARK née SAUNDERS married ARTHUR CLARK – AGNUS CORKHILL [sp?] née SAUNDERS – EVELYN DYKES née SAUNDERS – ANN SMITH née SAUNDERS – brother WILSON SAUNDERS

03:37 JAS: AGNUS and WILSON and self still alive – all live in INVERCARGILL [at time of interview]

03:55 JAS: Doesn’t remember paternal grandparents – Remembers maternal grandmother well – house grandmother lived in on RITCHIE STREET in INVERCARGILL is a HERITAGE HOUSE

04:43 JAS: Paternal grandparents came to NEW ZEALAND from ENGLAND – arrived here already married with three children – came straight to SOUTHLAND – bought a farm at SOUTH HILLEND

05:37 FGS: Grandparents of JAS had seven more children at SOUTH HILLEND

05:39 JAS: Paternal grandparents came to NEW ZEALAND in 1880 – Information about grandparents recorded in the book TALES OF THE TURI: 100 YEARS IN SOUTH HILLEND by MAJORIE CAIRNS and FRANK H. PLUNKETT

06:35 JAS: Maternal grandparents possibly born in NEW ZEALAND

06:55 FGS: Born in THORNBURY – parents came from the ORKNEY ISLANDS SCOTLAND – four children two born ORKNEY ISLANDS - two born THORNBURY

07:19 FGS: Parents came to NEW ZEALAND after the WAR [WORLD WAR I] – father came first went to war with the NEW ZEALAND SOLDIERS – brought family to NEW ZEALAND – Explains

07:39 FGS: Farmed in MYROSS BUSH [?] – then went to TEMPLETONS MILL at OTAUTAU BUSH - father had APPENDIX OPERATION – then went to FELLOWS at THORNBURY – bought farm at BIRCHWOOD

08:08 FGS: Parent’s surname was ALLEN – at TEMPLETON FLAX MILL at least two years – Explains

08:37 FGS: Family lived in cottage on FELLOWS FARM THORNBURY – Mentions MR OAGUE [sp?] and TEMPLETON – father worked at MILL

09:00 FGS: Self and JAS parent’s ANCESTRY from the ORKNEY ISLANDS SCOTLAND

09:13 FGS: Self youngest of four siblings - Eldest ROBERT ALLEN was ENGINE DRIVER at OHAI MINES – had four children – sister [?] HOWDEN née ALLEN at KOANA [?] – had one child – brother MITCHELL ALLEN married has GLENURE STATION - had nine children

10:00 FGS: Self had four children – eldest daughter GAIL SAUNDERS married JIM MACKENZIE both SCHOOL TEACHERS – had two children ANYA [?] and CARL MACKENZIE – daughter LYNLEY SAUNDERS a SCHOOL TEACHER married HUGH COLLIE [sp?] – had three children – NATHAN COLLIE [sp?] – JILLANA [?] – SARA [?] – son ROBERT SAUNDERS married with two children – RACHEL [?] and HADLEY [?] – youngest SHONA SAUNDERS married COLIN CARTWELL had two children – BENJAMIN CARTWELL and daughter [?] – Explains

11:53 JAS: Recalls earliest memory CATCHING A WEE PIG – mother pig chased him – self not yet attending school

12:10 JAS: Self grew up at DUNEARN – family home still there – now used by DAIRY WORKERS - nephew owns farm and leases it – originally JAS parents’ farm – Describes

13:03 JAS: Parents had house and other farm structures built for £1,190 – Details

13:34 JAS: House was built before parents married – father had CHAFF CUTTING BUSINESS before buying farm – BALLOTS drawn – father drew one at SPAR BUSH – swapped ballots with father’s brother who had interest in TIMBER and SAWMILLS

15:18 JAS: Recalls eating mainly HOMEGROWN FOOD – childhood games HIDE AND SEEK – ROUNDERS – CRICKET – RUGBY

15:53 JAS: NEIGHBOURING FAMILIES the KELLYS – SMITHS – BURNETTS – NELSONS SHARPES – MUNROES – self lived next door to SCHOOL

16:28 JAS: CHORES – FEED THE DOGS and HENS – help MILK COWS

16:40 JAS: Father sent CREAM away to the FEDERATION – Recalls 14 cows most self milked at one time - COWS MILKED BY HAND – later got MACHINES after self had left home

17:19 Interviewer asks how JAS met wife FRANCIS GLORIA ALLEN aka GLORIA – [jokes] “can’t remember”

17:42 FGS: Went to BIRCHWOOD SCHOOL – small school of 12 pupils – not enough for sports teams – played ROUNDERS TENNIS – lived over three miles from school – rode PONIES HACKS to school

18:23 FGS: Horses kept in HORSE PADDOCK – Recalls tying up a tricky pony

18:44 FGS: Chores done before school – 65 cows to milk – fed CALVES and PIGS – LAMBS in spring – father took milk to DAIRY FACTORY in BIRCHWOOD - sometimes went with father

19:11 FGS: Father was a CONTRACTER built the RAILWAY LINE between BIRCHWOOD and OHAI – Mother milked cows with help – Father lived in the HUT – employed men to finish RAILWAY LINE – Explains

19:48 FGS: Parents had MILKING MACHINES – 12 COW BALE – DAIRY SHED – five lots of milking machines – Explains

20:13 FGS: Can’t remember when DAIRY FACTORY closed – self and brother aged 12 and 13 DROVE COWS to OTAHU FLAT to be sold – both walked and biked – 1937

20:37 FGS: Self left [primary] school in 1937 age 12 – attended secondary school in INVERCARGILL – PRIVATE BOARDED – went for three years

21:03 FGS: Recalls long train rides to school – Caught MINERS PIE CART from OHAI – then caught PASSENGER TRAIN from WAIRIO to INVERCARGILL which met the TUATAPERE TIMBER TRAIN at THORNBURY – took over four hours – Details

21:56 FGS: BOARD cost “seven and six a week” – no alternative for secondary schooling – Parents did not receive assistance for board – mother gave 10 shillings - a half crown for POCKET MONEY – paid cash for PRIVATE BOARDING

22:20 FGS: Took COMMERCIAL at TECH [SOUTHLAND TECHNICAL COLLEGE]

22:48 FGS: After leaving school worked at OFFICE in INVERCARGILL – worked for MR ACHERSON [sp?] who owned HARDWARE STORE in INVERCARGILL – BRUCE PETERSON an ACCOUNTANT in THE CRESCENT – returned home to be a LAND GIRL on family farm – Explains

23:30 FGS: Whole family shifted to DUNEARN in 1945 – except elder brother who was at the MINES – sister working in CHRISTCHURCH – worked at home during WORLD WAR II with shortage of men - Decision to move to DUNEARN unknown – Parents had gone through THE GREAT DEPRESSION

24:59 FGS: Glad to return home during war – as a LAND GIRL – milked cows – DROVE TRACTOR - did all the jobs – sheep – LAMBING

25:22 FGS: Started life with NO ELECTRICITY – NO POWER to BIRCHWOOD ROAD until 1937 or 1938 – had an ANDERSON ENGINE to power MILKING MACHINES – most without power probably milked by hand

25:58 JAS: ANDERSON ENGINE was a single cylinder petrol engine

26:31 FGS: Left BIRCHWOOD - Sold cows in 1937 – mother continued to milk a few cows for the house – sent cream away to FEDERATION in INVERCARGILL – father was farming – given up RAILWAY work

26:57 FGS: PEOPLE WALKED OFF FARMS – five farms in VALLEY at BIRCHWOOD – THE FIRM rented farms to father – sold own property back to firm – bought FREEHOLD PROPERTY 1,060 acres at DUNEARN

27:29 FGS: Moved to DUNEARN in 1945 – father wasn’t in WORLD WAR II – fought in WORLD WAR I for three years and nine months – father never spoke much about war – heard stories only when father and friend from war spoke together

28:17 FGS: Recalls how father came to have a look at NEW ZEALAND – father decided to fight with the NEW ZEALAND SOLDIERS “it would be a piece of cake” – go to war then get mother and come back in a year – took five years

28:57 FGS: Recalls earliest memory – wanted to go to school at age four – would “run for my life to catch up with the others” – only caught up once at school – allowed to stay there

29:24 FGS: Recalls MAKING MUD CAKES with mother’s fresh eggs and earth – mother would know from shortage of eggs

29:58 FGS: Given POCKET MONEY when attending SOUTHLAND TECHNICAL COLLEGE - money saved till Friday to buy food for long train ride – wouldn’t get home till 8.30 pm – brother would wait at OHAI and take self home – Explains

31:00 JAS: Recalls significant people from childhood – Mother’s brother uncle JOHN HARDY – lived in INVERCARGILL – would visit and always showed interest in children – DROVE A CAR - eventually owned SOUTHLAND CARRYING COMPANY – previously worked at CENTRE BUSH as a CARRIER – moved to INVERCARGILL

32:03 JAS: Remembers when parents got FIRST CAR – an ARMSTRONG SIDDELEY – when self was age 11 or 12 – father’s brother gave car to father on condition GARAGE would be built – Explains

33:25 JAS: Closest SHOPPING at WINTON – GROCERIES and BREAD brought to house – GRIMWOODS GROCERIES and JEMISONS BREAD from WINTON – killed own MEAT – NO FREEZER

34:15 JAS: NO REFRIDGERATOR - Mother had a SAFE outside on shady southside of house – built with house

34:36 JAS: Father killed MUTTON - a BULLOCK in WINTER – MEAT kept fresh HUNG UP in trees covered with SCRIM – MEAT CORNED in barrel – pigs for PORK BACON – father sent meat BUTCHER in NIGHTCAPS to cure

35:53 JAS: Recalls FAMILY ACTIVITIES – DISTRICT PICNICS – travelled by HORSE AND CART until father got CAR – PICNICS up the RIVER – SWIMMING – FISHING – self would BIKE 10 miles to a DANCE before meeting wife

36:59 FGS: Recalls childhood CHORES – fed the animals while mother milked cows – men away working other jobs – couldn’t afford to stay on farm - father worked as ENGINE DRIVER at the MINES – had a JOSH [?] CONTRACT at MINES – father left contract to eldest son when could live off the land again – DEPRESSION TIME early 1930s – Explains

38:17 FGS: Recalls FAMILY CELEBRATIONS – Had no relations – went to the RIVER for SWIMMING and PICNICS with NEIGHBOURS – all went CATCHING CRABS also called YABBIES or FRESHWATER CRAYFISH

38:54 FGS: As TEENAGERS - SOLDIERS RETURNING HOME – WELCOME HOMES – DANCES every Friday night – held mostly at CLIFTON and PUKEMAORI RAWIA – not many men from the MINES went to WAR - ESSENTIAL INDUSTRY – brought many to the mines – Explains

39:45 FGS: Moved to DUNEARN age 20 – teenage years spent in BIRCHWOOD – MR and MRS GEORGE EADY owned BIRCHWOOD STATION were great ENTERTAINERS – family PLAYED CARDS there – family NEIGHBOURS the MACGREGORS at MOUNT LINTON STATION hosted community get togethers PICNICS

40:20 FGS: FAMILY MUSICAL NIGHTS - PIANO – JOHN’S family spent Sunday nights round the piano – Friday nights CARDS in the HALL playing EUCHRE – not enough youth for a DANCE – would have MUSICAL EVENING – father played the ACCORDIAN – uncle played the VIOLIN – Explains – SING-A-LONG

41:33 FGS: Young men from MOUNT LINTON STATION had no vehicles – came played cards – played MUSIC danced – dance partners were only 12 or 13 girls – rest had left DISTRICT to work – self learned to dance at early age

42:05 FGS: DAIRY FACTORY closed – area for STORING CHEESE emptied – used as VILLAGE HALL – Details

42:30 FGS: NO CHURCH built – CHURCH held in the SCHOOL once a month – MINISTER MR STEVENSON would come from NIGHTCAPS – PRESBYTERIAN – recalls only Presbyterians in the district

43:00 FGS: Recalls MACGREGOR family’s kindness to kids of the district – would supply coats for children if rained at picnics – COMMUNITY MINDED

43:34 FGS: Met husband JOHN ARMSTRONG SAUNDERS age 20 – husband came out of MILITARY CAMP at time FAMILY moved to DUNEARN – came to FARM to SHEAR SHEEP – self would take AFTERNOON TEA to JOHN

44:00 FGS: Neighbour had HOUSEWARMING in shed on family’s farm – Met JOHN at the DANCE

44:39 JAS: Left DUNEARN SCHOOL age 12 – went home DROVE A TEAM OF HORSES. Recalls carrying a box to put the COLLARS and HAMES on the horses – Details

45:14 JAS: NO BLACKSMITH SHOP on farm – draft horses weren’t shod for work on SOFT PASTURES – drove a SIX HORSE TEAM – pulled PLOUGH – DISC – PADDOCKS were 20 – 30 ACRES – to plough 20 acres with a TWO FURROW PLOUGH would take a week – Explains

46:31 JAS: Never had a TRACTOR until after leaving home – worked CRUTCHING and SHEARING after leaving school – age 17 worked DRIVING for RICHARD ALEXANDER “DICK” STEWART at ISLA BANK – Drove under special PERMIT due to war – Explains

47:23 JAS: Camped in HUT at STEWARTS when working there – had left family farm wanting a change – younger brother was returning home

47:53 JAS: Worked as CARRIER – then at THE WORKS – had ENLISTED in the NAVY – MANPOWERED into THE WORKS – CALLED UP INTO THE ARMY at age 19 – there for nine months – first at BURNHAM MILITARY CAMP in CHRISTCHURH – then SMITHFIELD CAMP in TIMARU

48:54 JAS: DROVE AMBULANCE at SMITHFIELD CAMP – already had HEAVY TRAFFIC LICENCE and FIRST AID CERTIFICATE – transported injured RETURNED SOLDIERS who were not hospitalised for treatment – Explains

50:59 JAS: Went into A BLOCK back in BURNHAM – to go in when WAR was finished - others in there were going to JAPAN – 1944 was MANPOWERED OUT to FEDERATED FARMERS – to go SHEARING lack of SHEARERS – wasn’t pleased about this change – went home never properly DISCHARGED - By end of the war was still manpowered as a shearer

52:11 JAS: Bought a TRACTOR started CONTRACTING – ploughed for father - had agreement father would sell horses and give money to self – never got money still ploughed for father – worked for neighbours mainly BAILING and HEADING

53:03 JAS: Most farmers had tractors – man on REHAB FARM waited nine months for tractor – Explains – self had ALLIS CHALMERS WC TRACTOR – bought BAILER and HEADER

53:54 FGS: Self at home in DUNEARN driving tractor

54:14 JAS: Wanted to be a CARPENTER – BOUGHT FARM in 1950

54:46 FGS: MARRIED in 1948

54:52 JAS: Self’s parents put a FLAT on front of the house when married

55:09 FGS: ENGAGED for two years age 21 – MARRIED age 23 - JOHN continued contracting – self had HEAVY TRAFFIC LICENCE had to trail behind husband with PICK UP for the HEADER – until 18 months later had FIRST CHILD – milked cows for husband’s parents – eventually BOUGHT NEIGHBOURS PROPERTY

56:07 FGS: Ladies didn’t propose - Recalls COURTING – ENTERTAINMENT was mainly WELCOME HOMES in DUNEARN and SOUTH HILLEND

56:25 JAS: GIFT EVENINGS

56:27 FGS: Lots of men coming home and weddings – a lot of GIFT EVENINGS

56:35 FGS: HALL at DUNEARN – DISTRICT bought the TUSSOCK CREEK DAIRY FACTORY – men cut it down into pieces – brought back and rebuilt as hall – located beside school

57:01 JAS: HALL BUILT on land from SCHOOL HORSE PADDOCK

57:10 FGS: HALL at SOUTH HILLEND – WEDDING DANCES - Recalls two years of engagement were very social

57:28 FGS: WEDDING DATE set ahead a few months because of RATIONING – had COUPON BOOKS – saved up COUPONS to buy MATERIAL for FROCKS – self made three BRIDEMAIDS DRESSES – had to save COUPONS for PETROL and part of wedding meal

58:01 FGS: ELMWOOD GARDEN – self’s parents supplied some MEAT and FRUIT SALAD – TINNED FRUIT on COUPONS – supplied own CREAM

58:23 FGS: MARRIED at the FIRST CHURCH in INVERCARGILL – MINISTER MR THOMPSON BRIDESMAIDS – sister HILDA HOWDEN née ALLEN – IVY and GRACIE HORRELL from TE TUA at TUATAPERE

58:47 JAS: BEST MEN – brother WILSON SAUNDERS – IVAN LINDSAY [sp?] – bride’s brother MITCHELL ALLEN

59:01 FGS: Wedding held at 10.30am – had LUNCH – went home took off wedding dress to milk cows – parent’s worker milked them instead – had TEA with 30 guests – went to WEDDING DANCE at DUNEARN HALL

59:50 FGS: WEDDING PARTY all came home – no petrol to go anywhere else – many guests from TUATAPERE – going to INVERCARGILL for WEDDING was a big deal

1:00.12 Interviewer mentions wedding photo on wall

1:00:18 FGS: SUGAR TEA RATIONED – everyone helped CATERERS with food – wouldn’t have enough otherwise

1:00:35 FGS: 120 WEDDING GUESTS – all ELMWOOD venue took at that time

1:01:15 FGS: BOARDED at MRS BAKERS in INVERCARGILL in youth– remained friends took BUTTER to when SHORT SUPPLY – DRESSED FOR WEDDING at MRS BAKERS – BAKERS were CUSTODIANS of the BATHS in INVERCARGILL – TAY STREET

1:01:38 JAS: DRESSED FOR WEDDING at home – drove to INVERCARGILL – had owncar 1937 FORD V8 COUPE

1:02:08 FGS: BEST MAN MR LINDSAY drove self into town – had no handkerchiefs MR LINDSAY bought hankies

1:02:33 JAS: FIFTH WEDDING in SAUNDERS FAMILY – second to last in family to marry

1:02:50 FGS: WEDDING BOUQUETS were huge – cost £5 for four bouquets and men’s buttonholes – remembers mother in law saying that was a lot – from FLORIST on TAYE STREET INVERCARGILL – bouquets were wired and heavy – BRIDESGROOM meant to pay – mother in law shouted the flowers

1:03:46 FGS: BAND from TUATAPERE played at wedding REG LEONARD – SUPPER wet night didn’t go home to get changed – WEDDING DATE 5TH MAY 1948

1:04:54 JAS: HONEYMOONED in RIVERTON – OWAKA – HENLEY – OAMARU

1:05:13 FGS: spent first night in RIVERTON AT MR MILLERS HOLIDAY HOUSE – IVY MILLER lived in same DISTRICT – sent every married couple from district there to start honeymoon – Explains

1:05:51 FGS: WEDDING DANCES common – can’t recall anyone who didn’t have one - own daughters had wedding dances

1:06:12 FGS: Honeymooned for two weeks – Recalls staying a night in HENLEY with aunt and uncle – slept in a FEATHERBED both ended up in middle – wire was “done” – stayed with people who hadn’t attended wedding

1:07:15 JAS: Stayed two nights at MRS MILLERS

1:07:28 WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHS taken at MR BUCKLEYS on ESK STREET INVERCARGILL – before the reception – Recalls guests being put out at having to wait three quarters of hour for bridal party – Explains

1:08:28 FGS: Can’t recall cost of photographs – mother got photo on wall done - many photos on card

1:09:00 FGS: Went to OAMARU to visit relation who didn’t attend wedding

1:09:13 FGS: Came back to DUNEARN settled into flat – built before wedding – furnished themselves – self-contained had own kitchen – stayed in flat two years

1:09:56 FGS: Had FIRST CHILD – no problems – FIRST PATIENT in a NEW HOME in WINTON - Recalls it not being very organised – had nothing to stitch with – DOCTOR arrived for the birth wearing pyjamas under clothes

1:10:52 JAS: After taking wife in - Stayed with mother’s cousin in WINTON till baby arrived – allowed to visit next morning

1:11:26 FGS: Stayed in the home for two weeks

1:11:34 JAS: Travelled back and forth from DUNEARN to WINTON to visit

1:11:42 FGS: All GRAVEL ROADS

1:11:44 JAS: Took 20 minutes

1:12:00 FGS: Wasn’t first grandchild in family

1:12:19 FGS: Recalls funny story from stay in maternity home – MRS BAKER sent a TELEGRAM from DUNEDIN – telegram arrived using maiden name ALLEN – nursing sister knew JOHN’S sister - called asking “are these two kids married or aren’t they?”

1:13:17 JAS: Recalls BUYING OWN PROPERTY – JOE MILLER was the AGENT in OTAUTAU – agreed on PRICE of £14 an ACRE – had to go through the LAND COURT – because SOLDIERS were returning – price deemed too high by COURT - brought down to £12 and 10 SHILLINGS per acre for 420 ACRES

1:14:50 JAS: Wasn’t easy to get LOAN – had FIRST MORTGAGE with INVERCARGILL SAVINGS BANK or SOUTHLAND SAVINGS BANK – FIXED for 15 YEARS at 2.5 PERCENT – had BRIDGING FINANCE from NATIONAL BANK in OTAUTAU

1:15:24 JAS: Property had NO POWER – had a HOUSE – 420 acres of land – eight PADDOCKS – two of them small – JIM CAIRNS PREVIOUS OWNER

1:15:57 JAS: House had NO WATER – had a RANGE with a TANK on the side – put in SUPER HEATER and HOT WATER SYSTEM – FOUR ROOMS

1:16:23 FGS: KITCHEN – LOUNGE – TWO BEDROOMS – NO BATHROOM

1:16:28 JAS: Put in BATH - PREVIOUS OWNERS had a BATH in the WASHHOUSE – would BOIL the COPPER – used WATER ran out through BAKING POWDER TIN under the house – Describes

1:16:47 JAS: Put in GENERATOR and LIGHTING SET – A GALLON of PETROL would last the night and CHARGE UP BATTERY for the morning – surrounding properties had power running through the farm

1:17:16 FGS: Property sat in the middle of HIDDEN BUSH ESTATE

1:17:26 JAS: NO DITCH or TYRE DRAIN [?] on the place – FLAT LAND – NO FENCES started from absolute scratch

1:17:54 JAS: A lot of work so didn’t go to FEDERATED FARMERS

1:18:05 JAS: Had to BUY STOCK - bought 600 SHEEP at THE SALES – father gave 150 TWO TOOTHS

1:18:29 JAS: Did not get paid for working on father’s farm when working there

1:18:39 FGS: Self milked cows at parent’s farm – was allowed the CREAM CHEQUE – REARED CALVES to take once married

1:19:02 FGS: LAND COURT had ruled price too high – CAIRNS’ wouldn’t accept lower price – wanted money under the table to make up the amount – which was paid – Explains

1:19:53 JAS: Given three years to pay – didn’t take that long – in second year of SHEARING earned 146 PENCE A POUND for WOOL – the year of the big WHARF STRIKE

1:20:22 FGS: Verbal agreement with CAIRNS – wanted property so agreed – had to explain to ACCOUNTANT where money from WOOL CHEQUE went – found the cash to give – a lot of people made same agreement – some people did not pay

1:21:20 FGS: LAND COURT set the price because of soldiers coming home – cutting up farms for them

1:21:30 JAS: Not entitled to land as soldier – didn’t serve in war – not a member of RETURNED SERVICES ASSOCIATION

1:22:15 FGS: Many people made UNDER THE TABLE agreements – buying run down farms – sellers wanting higher price – not talked about at the time – heard about others more recently

1:23:00 JAS: PROPERTY VALUE in 2008 – place across the road just sold for $14,000 an ACRE – as much for an acre as self paid for whole farm – neighbouring property $16,700 – block of land with nothing on it

1:23:37 FGS: HOUSE was a challenge – OPEN DRAIN full of RATS – BLIND DOG left by previous owner covered in FLEAS – GAIL [daughter] was covered in FLEA BITES which went SEPTIC – unpleasant first six months – RAT POISON brought out all the rats – Describes

1:24:43 FGS: Papered the KITCHEN – put down new LINO – parent’s gave a new ENAMEL RANGE – brother from the mines put in SUPER HEATER and jacked up the BATH – took a year or so

1:25:08 FGS: Milked five cows by hand – SEPARATED and MADE BUTTER BY HAND

1:25:18 JAS: BUILT a wee COWSHED

1:25:21 FGS: EXISTING COWSHED made of MANUKA – told by DAIRY INSPECTOR could not SEND CREAM from there – so built new cowshed – built by ROY MACKENZIE from OTAUTAU – Explains

1:25:44 FGS: Put two children in boxes while self milked cows – Explains

1:26:11 FGS: Self had never had any CHILDHOOD ILLNESS except PNEUMONIA - CHILDREN got the MEASLES – Self got very ill with the measles - SPRINGTIME husband busy LAMBING – JOHN bought MILKING MACHINE but charged it to self – Explains

1:27:07 FGS: SEPARATE ACCOUNTS – self KEPT the CHILDREN and HOUSE – provided GROCERIES – ACCOUNTANT pointed out JOHN had NO LIVING EXPENSES - GOT PAID HOUSE KEEPING ALLOWANCE

1:27:37 FGS: Lived FIVE YEARS in the OLD HOUSE – made improvements – put DADO round to make WARMER – got rid of rats – installed BATH and HANDBASIN Explains

1:28:10 FGS: NO WASHING MACHINE – NO POWER – had a COPPER and a TUB

1:28:18 JAS: Never got power connected – installed 12 VOLT LIGHTING SYSTEM - GALLON of PETROL last the night – Recalls MOVING INTO NEW HOUSE - during FIRST YEAR there were POWER CUTS in WINTER – took LIGHTING PLANT to use in three rooms at new house

1:28:52 FGS: KITCHEN – LIVING ROOM and PASSAGEWAY

1:28:56 JAS: Recalls man coming over one night to see why SAUNDERS house had power when no one else did

1:29:15 JAS: OLD HOUSE built in middle of farm – BUILT NEW HOUSE out near road – OLD WOOL SHED on property where SHEEP were SHEARED

1:29:42 JAS: FARMLAND was part of the HIDDEN BUSH ESTATE and had WOOLSHED and SHEEPYARDS on it – THREE CAIRNS BROTHERS bought THREE BLOCKS when LAND was CUT UP – cut the BIG SHED UP to build three sheds

1:30:19 JAS: Recall SHEARING SHED had NO PORTHOLES just a CATCHING PEN – used MACHINES – had own machines from previous work CRUTCHING and SHEARING

1:30:52 FGS: THREE CHILDREN BORN while living at old house – when recovering from MEASLES – TWO PLANT MILKING MACHINE made milking cows a piece of cake – Explains

1:31:38 FGS: CHILDREN went to DUNEARN SCHOOL – TWO and a HALF MILES from HOME – too close to get SCHOOL BUS – BIKED TO SCHOOL when old enough

1:32:13 JAS: FARM did not join onto parent’s property – on different roads – another property in between – Explains

1:32:41 JAS: Used to work with father – carried on CONTRACTING work HEADING and BAILING for three years while at OLD HOUSE

1:33:08 JAS: BOUGHT another 220 ACRES – when son ROBERT was getting older - STOCK NUMBERS got up to 3000 EWES plus DRY STOCK – started CROPPING - ONE THIRD of the land IN CROP – BUILT BIG SILOS – which paid off well

1:33:52 JAS: Run a SEED BUSINESS as well as FARM – GROWING SEED FOR SALE - OWN COMPANY called CENTRAL GRAIN – DRESSED TREATED and BRANDED SOLD to FIRMS or directly to people – ROYALTY RIGHTS for NAMES – son ROBERT has MARKETING RIGHTS FOR OATS WHEAT BARLEY – Explains

1:35:01 JAS: Son SENDS TWO or THREE CONTAINERS a WEEK to NORTH ISLAND - for [?] OATS – STORAGE CAPACITY 23 SILOS

1:35:19 FGS: Son was SENDING PEAS to TAIWAN and CONTRACTS people TO GROW for him

1:35:32 JAS: Son has 250 ACRES IN CROP to FULFIL ORDERS – not sure how much from outside contractors – hasn’t EXPORTED peas for quite some time

1:36:09 JAS: STOCK UNITS - ROBERT runs about 2000 EWES – 600 HOGGETS EMPLOYS ONE PERMANENT WORKER – THREE in busy time with CROPPING self getting weaned off from work

1:36:36 FGS: JOHN doesn’t work every day now

1:37:01 FGS: INVOLVED with LOCAL DISTRICT ORGANISATIONS – ASSOCIATION of PRESBYTERIAN WOMEN and the RURAL WOMEN which was the WOMEN’S DIVISION of FEDERATED FARMERS – mother in law ensured self was a PAID MEMBER – recently given an evening CELEBRATING 60 YEARS MEMBERSHIP member before marriage – JUNIOR MEMBER at SOUTH HILLEND

1:37:35 FGS: Recalls going to FIRST MEETING with mother in law – told own mother after meeting didn’t know what meeting was about – it was a waste of time - still had to WINDROW the PADDOCK – been a member ever since

1:38:27 FGS: As a LANDGIRL had to have the same skills as the men – Recalls getting HEAVY TRAFFIC LICENCE – father had a LEFT HAND DRIVE LORRY with a long wheel base – TRAFFIC INSPECTOR instructed self to turn in a gateway halfway up a hill – got the licence – Describes

1:39:30 FGS: Wasn’t rare for a woman to have a heavy traffic licence – a lot of WOMEN DROVE LORRIES during the WAR - D. T. KING the CARRIER at PUKAMAORI – KING’S two daughters drove lorries – gave up licence age 80 Explains

1:40:19 JAS: NEVER MADE SILAGE

1:40:34 FGS: SUNDAY SCHOOL held at HALL in DUNEARN – took the girls – ROBERTand husband didn’t attend – always jobs to do at home

1:41:17 FGS: Recalls having quite a lot of VISITORS at the OLD HOUSE – COAL RANGE was better to BAKE IN than ELECTRIC RANGE – didn’t dry things out

1:42:09 FGS: Recalls HOLIDAYS – parent’s and self would take children to RIVERTON JOHN would come down WEEKENDS – stayed at CRIB – would use WOMENS DIVISION CRIBS – or parent’s friend’s place

1:42:32 FGS: Mother told self to buy a house at RIVERTON when mother died – father didn’t want to go to RIVERTON – so bought a COTTAGE in QUEENSTOWN for LESS THAN £4000 using INHERITANCE – Explains

1:43:19 FGS: Mother died first – parents lived in DUNEARN – never retired off FARM brother got married BUILT a NEW HOME – parents stayed in OLD HOME - mother died at age 71

1:44:07 FGS: Went to COTTAGE in QUEENSTOWN for 28 YEARS – on the CORNER of BEACH STREET and BRUNSWICK STREET - right down in town on the WATERFRONT – just been SOLD and PULLED DOWN – BUILDING CONDOMINIUMS ON IT

1:44:33 JAS: SOLD IT for $1.7 MILLION

1:44:41 FGS: Self sold it way back and BOUGHT a HOUSE at KELVIN HEIGHTS - HOLIDAYS were always spent at QUEENSTOWN – Explains

1:45:06 FGS: No trouble getting JOHN to go to QUEENSTOWN – JOHN bought a BOAT used to go FISHING and SKIING

1:45:25 JAS: HOLIDAYS up in QUEENSTOWN – Mainly CHRISTMAS and WEEKENDS - while away parents would look after FARM

1:45:52 FGS: Would have at least a couple of weeks HOLIDAY at CHRISTMAS

1:45:59 JAS: Sometimes self came home earlier

1:46:06 FGS: COLLIE [sp?] FAMILY also got a boat - Recalls feeding a multitude of teenagers that daughters and the COLLIE boys brought around – often cooked tea for 23 young people – Explains

1:46:41 FGS: When two eldest daughters got into TEACHERS TRAINING COLLEGE both WORKED in QUEESTOWN over Christmas holidays – GAIL worked in the TEA ROOMS

1:47:22 FGS: Recalls road round LAKE WAKATIPU being quite scary

1:47:31 JAS: Drive took about three hours

1:47:40 FGS: SOLD the KELVIN HEIGHTS HOUSE – son ROBERT and wife JANICE BUILT a HOLIDAY HOME in QUEENSTOWN at KELVIN HEIGHTS

1:48:07 FGS: Daughters GAIL and LYNLEY went to SOUTHLAND GIRLS HIGH and BOARDED at the HOSTEL – COLLEGE BUILT in WINTON during this time - son ROBERT attended WINTON COLLEGE – youngest daughter SHONA went to SOUTHLAND GIRLS HIGH and BOARDED

1:48:43 FGS: Robert did well at METAL WORK – WOODWORK – MATHS – wasn’t interested in history and other subjects

1:49:19 JAS: Self BUILT an IMPLEMENT SHED for father – BUILT an IMPLEMENT SHED for wife’s father – “had to do that before I could get her”

1:49:29 FGS: Had help from father’s worker

1:49:37 JAS: Built sheds for self – “always had a kink for building”

1:50:34 End of first interview

Second Interview: 17 April 2008

00:00 Interview identification

00:35 JOHN ARMSTRONG SAUNDERS [JAS]: Recalls BUYING STOCK for FARM at DUNEARN – BOUGHT EWES at the CLEARING SALE of MR CAIRNS the FORMER OWNER of FARM – father gave 150 TWO TOOTHS – 600 EWES from MR CAIRNS – had DAIRY COWS which GLORIA raised

01:38 JAS: Recalls DEVELOPING FARMLAND – Started off mainly PLOUGHING and SEWING GRASS – already had TRACTOR from prior work CONTRACTING - MANURE was RATIONED at that time – ALLOCATIONS based on average BOUGHT over previous three years – very hard to get manure – NEIGHBOURS got FULL QUOTA – Explains

02:51 JAS: DRAINAGE – FRED FINDLAYSON [?] had a BARBER-GREENE TRENCHER - it was self-propelled and DUG DITCHES – put all new DRAINS on the property MACDOWELL used EXCAVATOR to dig ditches – also used WINTON DITCHING COMPANY – now have PIPES but did not originally – Details

05:20 JAS: WATER ran off FLAT LAND – Explains – water ended up in OTAHUTI – APARIMA RIVER– and ORETI RIVER

06:29 JAS: FENCING – had to start from scratch

06:38 INTERVIEWER: Mentions AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHS of the FARM – PHOTOGRAPHS of JOHN’S grandfather’s first home – PHOTOGRAPHS of GLORIA’S [FRANCIS GLORIA SUANDERS] grandfather’s home in the ORKNEY ISLANDS – SCOTLAND

07:22 JAS: FENCING – had CONCRETE POSTS – 3 FT HIGH – standard fence is 3 FT 9 – Explains

07:49 JAS: Had BATTERY ELECTRIC FENCE – for breaks not main fences

08:02 JAS: Put in TWO SHELTER BELTS – one near the house and one down through centre of property – FLAX SHELTER BELT along one fence beside road – Explains

08:45 JAS: Didn’t plant many TREES – POPLAR TREE – area was not WINDY

09:35 FRANCIS GLORIA SUANDERS [FGS]: Recalls Leaving job in INVERCARGILL COMING HOME to work on FARM during WORLD WAR II – YOUNG MEN were going to WAR – CONSCRIPTED to CAMP – self always keen on outside jobs – went home at age 18 for two years

10:04 FGS: Recalls jobs done on farm – self did everything brother did except PLOUGH the PADDOCK with a TEAM OF HORSES – had a small CRAWLER TRACTOR – FIRST TRACTOR in the DISTRICT – self DROVE TRACTOR - Describes

10:51 FGS: Drove tractor before turning 18 – home at weekends to help on farm

11:01 FGS: Pulled IMPLEMENTS behind TRACTOR – the DISCS and the HARROWS - the BINDER doing the OATS – had OATS at BIRCHWOOD – MINES always had a few HORSES in the MINES to PULL BOXES – REPLACED BY ENGINE which brother DROVE – taking COAL TO RAILWAY – had the CONTRACT to FEED the HORSES at OHAI MINES – also SOLD OATS and CHAFF – self and siblings CUT THE CHAFF and STOOKED the OATS – Explains

12:18 FGS: Self YOUNGEST in ALLEN FAMILY – ELDEST brother ROBERT ALLEN - drove engine at OHAI MINES – eventually took over small FAMILY FARM at OHAI – had more interest in machinery than farming – sister MRS [?] HOWDEN was MANPOWERED away from HOME to work at ARTHUR ELLIS’ FACTORY in DUNEDIN - MAKING UNIFORMS for SOLDIERS – then MANPOWERED each year to PICK APPLES in NELSON - next brother MITCHELL ALLEN only ever wanted to be a FARMER – has GLENURE STATION at BALFOUR

13:40 FGS: Self and siblings all liked the OUTDOORS – had to when working large properties and it was hard to get men – father went GUARANTOR for a DUTCH IMMIGRANT – the DUTCH BOYS were in INDONESIA as SOLDIERS - no fighting while they were there – if DUTCH SOLDERS could get a SPONSOR in NEW ZEALAND – they could come here – father brought out a DUTCHMAN JOHN SUANDERS and self’s brother taught him English – more than they should have

14:40 FGS: Recalls father BUILDING a SHED with JOHN and brother – Dutchman FONS BISHOPS arrived – learnt every word there was

15:00 FGS: FONS BISHOPS lived in a HUT with a BATHROOM on family’s property - FONS may have BUILT the BATHROOM – RABBITERS in it when family first took over property – Recalls “mother nearly killed that Dutchman with kindness” - FONS was taught to say NO RICE – that was all they could say - soldiers had lived on rice for two years – a BULLOCK was killed – FONS was dying to try some steak – over did it and was quite ill – took him six months to be able to eat a normal meal

15:51 FGS: FONS was small – aged 22 when he arrived – had a PLUMBING APPRENTICESHIP before being sent to INDONESIA – father released him early when FONS got the opportunity to work for PLUMBER in INVERCARGILL - CONTRACT was meant to be for two years – FONS was a plumber in INVERCARGILL until he retired – now passed away

16:43 FGS: FARMING at BIRCHWOOD – people had to leave some farms – father got to farm them – four NEIGHBOURS WALKED OFF their PROPERTIES – the FIRM took them over and LEASED them to father – during the 1930s THE GREAT DEPRESSION

17:22 FGS: STOCK – ran ROMNEYS and HEREFORD CATTLE – got rid of MILKING COWS – did milk up to 62 cows – father had worked at OHAI MINES and BUILDING RAILWAYS – as the FARM got bigger father came home working full time on the farm

18:00 FGS: Father had the contract and BUILT RAILWAY from BIRCHWOOD to OHAI

18:18 FGS: Had been LEASING FARMS in BIRCHWOOD – family BOUGHT PROPERTY at DUNEARN in 1945 – end of WORLD WAR II – SOLDIERS were returning home during self’s teenage years – WELCOME HOMES for soldiers were the only social events

19:08 FGS: LAND GIRL during the war – sister married a number of years after self and worked away from home at [?] WALKER, & RUDKINS in CHRISTCHURCH after finishing the MANPOWERED jobs – brother BOB [ROBERT] ALLEN worked at OHAI MINES until he took over the family property at OHAI - other brother [MITCHELL ALLEN] took over FAMILY FARM at DUNEARN after parents died - then eventually moved to BALFOUR after selling DUNEARN farm – explains

20:40 FGS: Mother had help MILKING COWS when father was away BUILDING the RAILWAY – had on other home help

21:13 JAS: Makes correction – Mother was born in WRIGHTS BUSH not GLADFIELD - mother’s parents must have been working there – mother’s surname was HARDIE [sp?]

21:43 INTERVIEWER makes correction – JOHN and GLORIA will be celebrating their DIAMOND WEDDING ANNIVERSARY not GOLDEN – 60 years together

22:06 JAS: NEW HOUSE BUILT by SYD BOOTH from WINTON

22:24 FGS: Self didn’t have a lot of say in house design – JOHN’S cousin HARRY BUTLER was a BUILDER in INVERCARGILL and helped with the PLANS

22:40 JAS: The biggest problem was designing a HOUSE that was affordable to build - Directly after the WAR - HOUSE FITTINGS were terribly hard to get – there wasn’t much choice – lived in old house for five years

23:12 JAS: Started planning the NEW HOUSE soon after moving into old house

23:18 FGS: JOHN’S father kept telling selves to build – had three young men in a caravan helping with the DITCHES – could not offer them a SHOWER – there wasn’t one – Explains

24:25 JAS: Recalls father married and built own house early – friend of father’s waited till he could afford to build and wasn’t in it long before retiring – parents spent their married lives in theirs – the day own house was ready – father made sure selves were in there

25:22 FGS: HOUSE COST around £6,000 – had four bedrooms – one bathroom - separate shower – lounge – living room – linen room – pantry – kitchen - large house – BUILDING RESTRICTIONS had been lifted at time house was built – Explains

26:22 FGS: Affordability was the issue for selves when building not size

26:25 JAS: HOUSE was built plain – long and narrow to reduce cost

26:41 FGS: Were not as conscious then as people are now of the SUN

26:45 JAS: The house got sun all round it

26:52 FGS: The sun would end up in the kitchen – Explains

27:15 FGS: House was fitted with an ELECTRIC RANGE and a DESTRUCTOR because there were POWER CUTS – the BUILDER came down from DUNEDIN originally - built brother’s home

27:33 JAS: BUILDER had been living in WINTON before building the house

27:42 FGS: Built brother MITCHELL’S house first – MITCHELL’S was the FIRST CONCRETE FLOOR in SOUTHLAND – selves had the second

28:13 FGS: The house was heated by an open fire in the living room and lounge - son has since put a YUNCA in where the open fire was

28:36 JAS: The windows were wooden – the kind that pushed out

29:00 FGS: Recalls how money was earned to FURNISH HOUSE – had always PLUCKED the DEAD SHEEP at home and when married – used to go RABBITING – sold rabbits at the gate for two and six a pair – had enough money to furnish the house when built – JOHN built it and put the carpets down – self furnished it

29:28 FGS: Furnishings back then were highly priced – bought a mahogany bedroom suite for £62 – bought the furniture in DUNEDIN

29:46 FGS: Self made all the DRAPES and CURTAINS – got FABRIC from SCHOLAR & CHISM’S [?] in INVERCARGILL

30:20 FGS: BATHROOM FURNISHINGS purchased from a PLUMBING place on TAYE STREET – possibly JOHN EDMONDS

30:38 JAS: All the door fittings and everything like that came from JOHN EDMONDS

30:52 FGS: Had one toilet separate from the bathroom – later put in another

31:17 JAS: House took five months to build – self and father helped builders by carting gravel – timber – bricks – BRICKS came from MICK SKIMMING’S [sp?] in town [INVERCARGILL] – they may have been made in DUNEDIN

32:18 FGS: Recalls age of house - the house was 50 years old in 2007 – had youngest baby in that house – it was a piece of cake having a baby when you had hot and cold water – youngest turned 50 in 2007

32:47 FGS: It was marvellous to have RUNNING HOT WATER – much easier than BOILING THE COPPER everyday

33:05 FGS: Previous owners had not installed POWER – must have been too costly - an old couple with no children – had a sister sick with cancer living with them

33:46 JAS: Extended the GARAGE from a SINGLE GARAGE to a TWO CAR GARAGE - extended the BACK PORCH and the living room – son ROBERT currently renovating

34:32 FGS: Son ROBERT aged 52 or 53 years old

35:00 JAS: Recalls decision to start GROWING GRAIN – first grain self ever sowed was two bags to get FEED for the HENS – WHEAT – got 12 bags back – first effort not very good – had some HEREFORD CATTLE for a while – started doing more and more grain – got mixed up with CROP and FOOD – GREW A PADDOCK of SEED for WRIGHTSON’S – for LINCOLN UNIVERSITY RESEARCH – DEVELOPING SEEDS – started doing TRIAL CROPS for CROP AND FOOD - Explains

37:00 JAS: Any SEED carried on from TRIALS was grown bigger – self then grew for MULTIPLICATION – then started DRESSING and TREATING GRAIN to sellas SEED to other people – Explains

38:06 JAS: Recalls WRIGHTSON’S and CROP AND FOOD INSPECTION of CROPS – WRIGHTSON’S would collect CROPS and do the DRESSING AND TREATING before selling it on - was a few years before selves began DRESSING and TREATING CROPS for SALE

39:00 FGS: Recalls CROP BUSINESS EXPANDING – started off with GROWING OATS for FLEMINGS MILL in GORE

39:05 JAS: The SEED LINE first had a SHED with TWO BAYS in it – then built another shed with FOUR BAYS in it – CROPS were put into BAYS – put in a GRAIN DRYER which was a big help – used to do OUTSIDE DRYING - dryness tested with WHEAT MOISTURE METRE – Explains

40:04 JAS: Main CROPS were WHEAT OATS and PEAS – did not grow BARLEY back then – Explains

40:40 JAS: Self had own MACHINERY – DRESSING PLANT – DRILLS – complete CULTIVATION – never did DIRECT DRILLING – nowadays quite a lot farmers use DIRECT DRILLING

41:25 JAS: CROPS were taken off and the STRAW was BURNT – BURNING STRAW helps with WEED POSITION and keep PADDOCKS cleaner – selves BURNT STRAW – burning is a problem now – somebody sees a big fire from the road calls the FIRE BRIGADE – couldn’t burn during FIRE BANS – recalls having three FIRE ENGINES arriving at property

42:31 JAS: Nowadays farmers notify authorities when BURNING OFF – have BALED STRAW a few times – this year all the autumn wheat was baled for feeding DAIRY COWS in the WINTER – straw gives cows FIBRE when they are fed on SUEDES

43:20 JAS: Made HAY as well – had a BALER – latter years made BALEAGE – never made SILAGE

43:44 FGS: Brought YOUNG COWS with self from parent’s farm – self reared cows at home before getting married – bought them from MR MILLEN down at APIRIMA – Explains

44:44 FGS: Kept the HEFFER CALVES for a year or two – sold the BULLOCKS and got £42 for the one sold – bought a KENWOOD CAKE MIXER with the money - which could not be used – had no power

45:21 FGS: Had five MILKING COWS - milked by hand – then got the MILKING MACHINE – when new house was built self still milked cows - daughter GAIL learnt to milk the cows before she went to school – stopped milking cows to take the girls to school in INVERCARGILL - no bus on Mondays – bought the milk at the gate

46:17 FGS: The milk was SEPARATED – CREAM was sent to the INVERCARGILL DAIRY FEDERATION – the MAILMAN took the cream

46:56 JAS: Self did not build the GRANARIES – built the WOOL SHED – PILSHERS [sp?] ENGINEERING put the STEEL FRAMES up – selves did the rest

47:33 JAS: Recalls taking up WOODWORK – bought a WOOD LATHE before leaving the farm – went to workshops at the WOODWORKERS’ GUILD – held at SOUTHLAND BOYS’ HIGH now – started out at TWEED STREET INVERCARGILL the GUILD uses the school’s workroom and equipment – people that belong to the GUILD give assistance

49:03 JAS: Recalls first major WOODWORK piece created – made a BASSINET for first great grandchild – began making CLOCKS two years ago – the first CLOCK took a real long time – about nine months – had a plan to follow - would have been easier with a different timbre – used CURLY BEECH which is very hard to get smooth – son ROBERT now has the CLOCK

50:22 JAS: Gets CLOCK INNARDS from CARBATEC in AUCKLAND – people at the GUILD had asked if anyone wanted to make a GRANDFATHER CLOCK - Explains

51:33 JAS: Describes going out to SHED to work

52:14 JAS: Recalls making more clocks – asked if anyone wanted a GRANDFATHER CLOCK – son ROBERT’S wife wanted one – rest of family wanted one – built one for each grandson – has four grandsons

52:50 FGS: Two of the clocks are away – daughter LYNLEY has grandson NATHAN’S - ROBERT’S got grandson HADLEIGH’S – the other two clocks are here at selves home

53:01 JAS: Self shut clocks off before interview

53:19 JAS: Recalls other pieces self has made – made FOLD DOWN TABLES – PLANT POT STANDS – TOYS – made two big trucks to order

54:20 FGS: Recalls going to RURAL WOMEN and to CHURCH GROUP PRESBYTERIAN WOMEN’S MISSIONARY UNION now called ASSOCIATED PRESBYTERIAN WOMEN – through RURAL WOMEN self was on other COMMITTEES – WOMEN’S DIVISION started a FORESTRY at DIPTON sixty years ago – the CENTRAL SOUTH LADIES were very involved in it and the SOUTHERN SOUTHLAND LADIES – self was given little baby PINE TREES by mother in law which the ladies grew from seed – rabbits ate the trees given to self – Explains

55:14 FGS: RABBITS ate the plants at Dipton too – LAND had been given by the HAMILTON BROTHERS – the LADIES thought they could run it themselves – but it was too big a project – the RABBITS ate all the TREES on the first side - the HAMILTON BROTHERS took the land back and gave another piece of land on the other side of the road – 150 ACRES – and the LADIES started again - self has been involved with the FORESTRY ever since

55:57 FGS: A man was hired to SHOOT and SET TRAPS for RABBITS – Over the years the FORESTRY has been very interesting – took many years to be a paying proposition – now costs as much to manage as selves get out of it – looking at SELLING it

56:30 FGS: All MONEY goes to CHARITY – over $30,000 given to the HOSPICE twice - given money to the AMBULANCES in CENTRAL SOUTHLAND – given money to the MEDCIAL CENTRE and bought DEFIBRILLATORS – put money into the MATERNITY HOME when it became a BIRTHING UNIT – all the HALLS in SOUTHLAND would have had NEW CURTAINS from the FORESTRY

57:13 FGS: Self was involved with the WOMEN’S DIVISION HOLIDAY HOMES at RIVERTON – shared CLEANING duties – homes were owned by the WOMEN’S DIVISION – self did not have a HOBBY as such but was involved with those committees

57:35 FGS: Self did all the children’s SEWING - did not learn to sew – just sewed - it was a necessity – mother gave self a TREADLE SEWING MACHINE once married – sewed on that years after being in the NEW HOUSE – granddaughter JOANNA [?] got it – first ELECTRIC SEWING MACHINE was a BERNINA given to self by mother – had it up until moving to current house - traded for a smaller machine thinking self would no longer be sewing farm clothes – Explains

59:23 FGS: RURAL WOMEN still owns the FORESTRY LAND – as sections are MILLED they are REPLANTED - it is still a FORESTRY PARK – started from the foresight of mother in law’s generation – three ladies in CENTRAL SOUTHLAND were very interested and went and worked at the forestry PLANTING the TREES with the ladies from SOUTHLAND – Explains

1:00:20 FGS: The ladies from CENTRAL were MRS MUIR – MRS KIRKWOOD – and MRS LANGFORD – they drew in others – MRS MILLER – mother in law and others - self’s mother never drove so was not involved – Explains

1:01:13 FGS: Mother never had a desire to drive – recall being little and family having a GIG with rubber tyres on it which father put on – mother used the gig to go to OHAI and do her messages – farm children learn to drive naturally

1:02:20 JAS: Recalls time as AMBULANCE DRIVER at ARMY BASE – self and another driver LANCE WILSON had wanted to see a certain [movie] picture in TIMARU – always seemed to get held up – terrible TRAFFIC JAMS in TIMARU – put the siren on to get through one night to get the patient home and see the picture – got into trouble – Explains

1:04:03 FGS: Self did not know JOHN during those days – met JOHN after he came out of ARMY CAMP

1:04:36 FGS: SEWED mainly for children and self – just household sewing – never got into patchwork – too involved with the RURAL WOMEN’S DIVISION and ASSOCIATED PRESBYTERIAN WOMEN – through RURAL WOMEN self was involved with NATIONAL COUNCIL OF WOMEN – had to let some things go – Explains

1:05:23 FGS: Self was also on the HOMECARE committee when it started – has become ACCESS HOMECARE now – a very lucrative business for WOMEN’S DIVISION – and now run from HEADQUARTERS

1:05:47 FGS: Recalls how HOMECARE was established – started with people needing help – YOUNG MOTHERS needing HELP in the country – people would ring the division who would find someone to place in the home to help – self got involved – SUBSIDIES were given to some people – HOUSEKEEPERS were SUBSIDISED – it was originally called the WOMEN’S DIVISION HOUSEKEEPING SCHEME

1:06:49 FGS: Recalls how money was raised for SUBSIDIES – HEADQUARTERS provided some of it – each area raised some money – CENTRAL SOUTHLAND has run BRIDE OF THE YEAR for 27 YEARS - it was the main FUNDRAISER usually raising $4,000

1:07:30 FGS: Recalls how HOMECARE became ACCESS HOME HELP – changed about 10 years ago - became too big for the areas to run due to loss of members – HEADQUARTERS took over – a gentleman at the WELLINGTON OFFICE took over the financial side of it – one of many HOMECARE providers – Explains

1:08:45 FGS: ACCESS HOME HELP now run as a BUSINESS – a was house bought as OFFICES in INVERCARGILL – which was sold – now have offices in the bank on the CRESCENT in INVERCARGILL – PROFITS go to HEADQUARTERS who ADMINISTERS it – each area gets something out of it – Explains

1:09:45 FGS: Still a big DEMAND for HOUSEKEEPING – DAIRY PEOPLE quite desperate for people to come in the morning while milking is done – having great difficulty getting people out in the country – need a NETWORK – Explains

1:11:15 FGS: Recalls role with WOMEN’S DIVISION HOLIDAY HOMES – always had an INTER-PROVINCIAL COMMITTEE – which had two people from each area – who ran the holiday homes – attended to the cleaning – and decided who would stay in them at Christmas – holiday homes were sold – the division still has the money – self on the committee that divides the INTEREST up into the different areas – money is given to CHARITY within the areas

1:13:01 INTERVIEWER ends recording

Second Interview (Continued): 17 April 2008

00:00 Interview resumes

00:25 Interviewer mentions upcoming DIAMOND ANNIVERSARY of JOHN ARMSTRONG SAUNDERS [JAS] and FRANCIS GLORIA SAUNDERS [FGS]

00:45 FGS: Details FAMILY members – children grandchildren and great grandchildren - eldest child is daughter GAIL MCKENZIE née SAUNDERS - the first child born in the NEW HOUSE in WINTON – married to JIM MCKENZIE – she has been a TEACHER at ST JOHN’S for 30 years – have two children CARL MCKENZIE – a BANK MANAGER in TARADALE – has one son DYLAN MCKENZIE – GAIL AND JIM’S daughter ANYA RAINES is married to NICK RAINES – a BANK MANAGER at NATIONAL BANK in INVERCARGILL – have two children

01:56 FGS: Then daughter LYNLEY COLLIE née SAUNDERS second child – a SCHOOL TEACHER married HUGH COLLIE – FARMED at WAIPANGO now FARM at KURIWAO – have three children – NATHAN COLLIE who farms at home with parents – daughter JILLANA – DEPUTY PRINCIPAL at WINTON SCHOOL – SARA a DIETICIAN in MANCHESTER ENGLAND

02:24 FGS: Then son ROBERT SAUNDERS a FARMER – married JANICE HOLMES – have two children – RACHEL who lives in AUCKLAND – works in EVENT MANAGEMENT – and son HADLEIGH SAUNDERS – lives in BRISBANE AUSTRALIA – BUILDER

03:08 FGS: Youngest daughter SHONA – married a FARMER COLLIN CARDWELL – now divorced – have two children – BENJAMIN CARDWELL – who works for WILSON BROTHERS ENGINEERING in INVERCARGILL – daughter ALICE CARDWELL – went to LINCOLN UNIVERSITY – is in GREYMOUTH COUNCIL and works at the POLYTECH – seven of the nine grandchildren went to university

04:06 FGS: SHONA lives in ALEXANDRA and works in the LOCAL COUNCIL OFFICE – had worked at the bank for 23 years

04:22 JAS: Daughter SHONA does the CONSENTS for COUNCIL

04:49 FGS: Bought the COTTAGE in QUEENSTOWN with MONEY mother left as a legacy to self after she died – parents stayed at the FARM at DUNEARN – a few months after mother passed away father went to stay with self’s older sister at CENTRE BUSH – father there a year before passing away – mother died age 71 – father died age 72 from a heart attack – father was still able to farm – still drove the tractor and did all the jobs – was a diabetic for many years

05:55 FGS: Brother was married on the family farm – built a new home and stayed on the farm – lovely big wooden home - house no longer there – pulled down by next owner and sold off

06:38 JAS: Parents sold their place to a grandson and retired to WINTON

07:01 FGS: JOHN’S parents were in their seventies when they died

07:14 JAS: The grandson has just leased the farm – lives in MAKAREWA now and owns CLARKES SEED & FEED – farm leased for DAIRY GRAZING

07:53 FGS: Self’s father had heart problems for quite a few years – in recent years someone had told self that mother had died of cancer – sat with mother for three weeks at KEW HOSPITAL before she passed – no one had mentioned cancer then – Explains

08:59 FGS: Mother was semi-conscious her last week there – mother’s passing was a shock to father and whole family

09:44 JAS: Reflects FARMING back then was easier than it is now – there is more pressure now – it was more relaxed then – you could say what your income for the year was going to be – now you have no idea

10:18 FGS: Reflects “we didn’t have it and we were satisfied with what we had – now the young ones are not satisfied with what they have got – they want more too quickly – that’s the problem with a lot of them getting into debt – we just knew we couldn’t have it – you just had to manage with what you had”

10:50 FGS: Recalls first starting out on the FARM – when selves first farmed – did not have a car – bought LORRY off father – parents would take self to WINTON on a Friday night and shop – had a wonderful MAILMAN – the PLUNKET lady called at the house – a GROCER never came it was the MAILMAN - you could get anything you wanted from WINTON

11:48 JAS: The WINTON 3[RD] RURAL DELIVERY

11:56 FGS: Recalls selves were busy at home – didn’t think of going anywhere except up to the HALL

12:15 JAS: Bought a PLYMOUTH car

12:27 FGS: Recalls no SEATBELTS in cars – amazed there weren’t more deaths – used to go round and PLUCK the SHEEP with the children in the car for JOHN – remembers a ewe shooting in front of the car – self braked and daughter GAIL went right up under the dash

12:51: FGS: Recalls another car incident – GAIL was standing on the seat – man came out of an intersection – AVENAL onto DEE STREET – he was at fault – self braked and GAIL went right under the dash – JOHN built a frame like the side of a cot and jammed it across the back seat

13:25 JAS: When you shut the doors the handles locked it into place

13:31 FGS: When GAIL and LYNLEY were little self “pitched them in there and there they stayed” – it was just the seat with the frame across the front of it

13:48 FGS: Used to PLUCK the SHEEP with a bucket of disinfectant water

13:58 JAS: Had an old MODEL A made into a truck for first FARM VEHICLE – then an INTERNATIONAL UTE – now it’s all MOTORBIKES

14:29 FGS: Recall first few years living in new home – JOHN went back to the FARM – self joined many groups – decided self didn’t want all these things and resigned but stayed with RURAL WOMEN and the FORESTRY

14:56 FGS: Self goes to SUPER BLUES – JOHN’S only been once

15:09 JAS: Didn’t really get involved with POLITICS while still on the farm

15:12 FGS: Self did get involved [supporting the NATIONAL PARTY CAMPAIGN]– “I worked very hard for BILL [BILL ENGLISH?]” – not when BRIAN TALBOYS was in because the children were small – Explains

15:48 FGS: Self was involved when DEREK ANGUS was in

15:59 Interview ends

Third Interview: 21 April 2008

00:00 Interview identification

00:27 FRANCIS GLORIA SAUNDERS [FGS]: Details various AWARDS self has received from ORGANISATIONS - RURAL WOMEN formerly WOMEN’S DIVISION

00:42 Interviewer mentions AWARDS held at the family home if family wish to view

00:53 FGS: Self received BRANCH HONOUR – was going to be given LIFE MEMBERSHIP - self suggested it be given to two older members instead – was SECRETARY of CENTRAL SOUTHLAND EXECUTIVE for 20 years and received LIFE MEMBERSHIP - also given LONG SERVICE AWARD at WINTON – dinner party held at WINTON HOTEL celebrating 60 years of membership

02:10 FGS: Self belonged to PRESBYTERIAN WOMEN’S MISSIONARY UNION which became the ASSOCIATION OF PRESBYTERIAN WOMEN in the CHURCH – received the LEPROSY MISSION CERTIFICATE during time working in the MISSIONARIES

02:23 Interviewer clarifies - reads from LEPROSY MISSION CERTIFICATE – “On the occasionof their 125th anniversary with great pleasure to acknowledge, honour and thank MRS J SAUNDERS”

02:37 FGS: Explains – women used their husband’s initials back when self was first married - nobody used their own first names - they used their husband’s – no one thought about it - this was the custom

03:10 FGS: When addressing other women within the organisation– younger members often referred to older members by title not given names – self was single when first joined – self was FOUNDATION MEMBER at DUNEARN and opened a branch there

03:52 FGS: Self’s years with WOMEN’S DIVISION now RURAL WOMEN were fruitful – there was nothing else to go to – the CHURCH in DUNEARN was closed then the CHURCH in SOUTH HILLEND was CLOSED – then the CHURCH at CENTRE BUSH – most of the CONGREGATION was LOST – as they did not want to travel so far

04:37 FGS: Now people can go to WINDSOR or FIRST CHURCH

05:29 FGS: There is a book on the WOMEN’S DIVISION FORESTRY called Trees by MRS BUCKINGHAM who was PRESIDENT of the FORESTRY COMMITTEE for many years has since passed away - she retired to TEMUKA – a tree was cut at the FORESTRY and made into a coffee table for MRS BUCKINGHAM

07:05 JOHN ARMSTRONG SAUNDERS [JAS]: Recalls GROWING CROPS and getting into GROWING ONIONS – began doing OAT TRIALS and WHEAT TRIALS for LINCOLN CROP & FOOD - Some of the “chiefs” from MASSEY UNIVERSITY came to the farm – one chap kept putting SOUTHLAND down – self got annoyed and said “SOUTHLAND can grow anything you can grow” – mentions FATHER always having a GRAPEVINE which always ripened even growing outside – the man then suggested ONIONS – SEED was meant to be sent down but never arrived – more SEED was sent – it was late in the season by then – son ROBERT SAUNDERS thought they would sow some anyway – seeds were sewn by hand which is tricky – when the men from MASSEY came back to look at the TRIAL PLOTS of GRAIN – the same man asked to see the ONIONS - which were feeble then – by November they really took off – by the next visit when the man asked to see the ONIONS again they had really grown

09:58 JAS: The next year selves put in a few more ONIONS with SEEDS from LINCOLN CROP & FOOD – borrowed a PRECISION PLANTER from LINCOLN’S GORE EXPERIMENTAL STATION and planted half an acre – planted just after the shortest day – ground was worked up in the AUTUMN – that CROP was HARVESTED BY HAND in FEBRUARY - left lying on the ground for a week – FAMILY all gathered and CUT TOPS OFF by hand planted a few more the next year – planted a bit later – the plants mature more even when planted earlier – that year instead of harvesting by hand - self built a BLADE to undercut them – which was pulled by a TRACTOR – then TOPPED by hand – THIRD YEAR topped them by hand

12:38 JAS: Self went up to the NORTH ISLAND to look at a MACHINE – got a proper LIFTER - self built a TOPPER to take the tops off – got up to 10 ACRES at most – grew onions for around 10 years – just increased it a bit each year

13:33 JAS: ONIONS were stored and kept dry – self converted an old APPLE GRADER into a GRADER – graded onions into different sizes – some went to the MART – some weresold privately – bagged up into proper onion bags – 5, 10, and 20 KG bags – longest time stored would be six months – the MART only took so many – KEW HOSPITAL took so many – INVERCARGILL supplies GORE, QUEENSTOWN

15:02 JAS: Were no others growing onions in the area at that time

15:11 JAS: The ONION man from MASSEY never returned to the farm – LINCOLN CROP & FOOD rang up and invited selves to come up to a FIELD DAY in CANTERBURY – self took a bag of onions – self and GLORIA SAUNDERS headed up to HEINZ (?) to meet them – went round the FIELD DAYS to different ONION GROWERS in CANTERBURY – self arrived as a speaker was speaking who announced “Just walked in, is JOHN SAUNDERS from SOUTHLAND. That’ll mean nothing to you, but he’s the same to you as you are as you are to PUKEKOHE”

16:43 JAS: Selves went round the different onion places and then went back to LINCOLN - everyone wanted to see the ONIONS – it was a 20 KG BAG with 25 ONIONS in it – that is how big they were – BUFFALO ONIONS – it was an onion used for salads – quite mild

17:38 JAS: Selves gave up GROWING ONIONS – it clashed with the other HARVESTS too much – WHEAT, OATS, PEAS

18:03 JAS: Started GROWING PEAS mainly for SEED – grew PEAS for two years to HARVEST for EXPORT – selves just THRESHED and BAGGED them and they went away

18:31 JAS: Just used an ordinary HEADER to get the PEAS off – the peas were ripe not green so the SEEDS came into the machine – the PEA STRAW was BALED and SOLD – hard to get these days not as much grown

19:03 JAS: Decided to stick with WHEAT, OATS, and BARLEY – Explains – had to clean the HEADER out so the BARLEY would not mix in with other crops – the enterprise has grown and son ROBERT SAUNDERS has three people helping

19:55 JAS: Son ROBERT is DRESSING GRAIN for SEED and TREATING GRAIN for SEED for AUTUMN SOWING – which will go to places in the area, ASHBURTON, CHRISTCHURCH – ordered through a firm mainly – a lot of LOCAL FARMERS buy off ROBERT – DAIRYING has taken over most of the local area

20:49 JAS: Explains - This will have an impact on CROPS and SEED making it very dear [expensive]

21:07 JAS: Used to be a lot of CROPS grown here – now mainly grown in CANTERBURY - still a bit grown in BALFOUR

21:21 JAS: Selves proved that anything could be grown in SOUTHLAND

21:30 JAS: As far as self knows no one has successfully planted COMMERCIAL GRAPES here

21:45 FGS: JOHN GREW LENTILS one year – a beautiful little CROP about 9 -10 inches high - lovely very green and fluffy – WILD DUCKS thought they were lovely too – they got more than selves got – “they came in in their hundreds”

22:23 JAS: Had seven shooting there one night and it made no difference – they just kept coming in

22:30 FGS: Selves were allowed to SHOOT the DUCKS but not allowed to eat them – they had to be left lying or given to charity – because it was out of season 22:42 JAS: DUCKS did a lot of damage before May DUCK SHOOTING SEASON – DUCKS flattened it [LENTIL CROPS] because it was not high – ducks would start on the outside and work inwards – and tramped it down flat

22:58 FGS: It was such an interesting crop – it looked lovely in the paddock – but a useless thing to do with the amount of ducks in SOUTHLAND

23:15 JAS: Tried GROWING RED LENTILS for just one year

23:40 JAS: Selves tried GROWING a paddock of BROAD BEANS one year – DISEASE was the hardest part with the crop – “if you get a wee black spot on the bean they weren’t any good”

24:00 FGS: But the bean crop grew very well – it grew almost six feet high

24:06 Interviewer asks if the beans were planted on Anzac Day

24:09 JAS: [Laughs] No - self could not remember when

24:11 Interviewer explains planting on Anzac Day is the tradition

24:22 JAS: Grew TICK [FABA] BEANS for a number of years – used for STOCK FEED

24:46 JAS: LINCOLN CROP & SEED would often come to check on TRIAL CROPS – half the time selves never saw them

25:17 JAS: Selves had TRIALS one year with 60 or 70 varieties of PEAS – short 3 metre rows LINCOLN were trying to get a pea that was resistant to mould – never found out what came of that

26:27 JAS: Two big EXPORTS of PEAS were grown for FEED – went to TAIWAN and was ground up into PEA FLOUR

27:23 JAS: When working with PEAS you don’t spill them on the floor – “it’s like trying to walk on ball bearings … they are lethal” – Explains

28:11 JAS: Had one shed for the dressing of seeds – which expanded a bit

28:17 FGS: Had one special shed for the ONIONS – selves bought a GRADER from a FRUIT ORCHARD in ROXBURGH for grading the onions – whole family were down there bagging the different sizes – children were at high school and Teachers’ Training College

29:10 FGS: Back when the girls were at TEACHERS’ COLLEGE they were paid a small wage at tertiary education – which paid for board – selves kept them in clothes and books – all were BONDED to teach in SOUTHLAND for three years as they had been paid to go to college – suggests this scheme should be brought back and applied to doctors training

30:32 Interviewer points out that JOHN SAUNDERS’ GRANDFATHER CLOCKS which were talked about in another session can be heard during the interview

30:59 Interview ends