Interviewee: John Robert (Jack) MURRELL

Interview date: 2 November 2004

Interviewer and Abstractor: Morage Forrester

Recorded at Jack's home in Manapouri

Tape 8 Side A starts

001: Continues discussing his jobs around NEW ZEALAND, saying his next move was towards WELLINGTON.

022: There, he says, he wanted to find a way to work his passage to ENGLAND (in the 1950s the mode of transport was by passenger ship). Recalls getting a job as a packer for the DOMINION (newspaper) at night.

052: Recalls he sometimes worked as a casual labourer “this is called seagulling” by which he joined the lines of other unemployed men at the docks hoping to have their names called for casual work on a daily basis.

077: Remembers thinking, at the time, that he was working in one of the most beautiful harbours in the world.

103: Moves on to travelling to SYDNEY on the WANGANELLA and worked in that city for a year.

133: Talks about the numbered napkin ring at his table place on the WANGANELLA and that when he’d left the ship he was given a 7-shillings and sixpence refund for not having stolen it.

143: Says he took a taxi to KINGS CROSS and booked into a “doss house” which was akin to a YMCA. Says the mattress was stuffed with straw. Replies he was twenty years old.

152: Describes how years later he took a tour bus across to DOUBTFUL SOUND and reaching the WANGANELLA walked across the gang plank into the middle of the ship (it was used to house power project workers).

158: Replies that he spent about a year in SYDNEY and that he worked for quite a while as a travelling salesman selling refrigerators and washing machines. Says they were sold on commission at 25 pounds each. Admits he only just survived on that. But later added that one SATURDAY morning, he made 52 pounds commission in three hours

170: States the job helped him get over his shyness and gave him the skills to approach his AUNT EVA later about buying the business at the GRAND VIEW. Mentions they bought the petrol licence from the LINDSAYS and built the shop (on its present site opposite the guesthouse). Calculates that this happened in the early 1960s, just as the power scheme was starting.

196: Responding to question, says the government had enormous fiscal control. Says the FARMERS got subsidies for everything and then other people got subsidies to counter the effect of those subsidies. “Now you’re in really silly country when that happens.”

201: Says they borrowed money from a lawyer who had a client wishing to invest in property. States the lawyer, MERVYN MITCHELL, was the son of a former owner of MANAPOURI STATION.

218: However, it was only days later, he says, that the HYDRO POWER PROJECT authorities ruled no further works were to be carried out within the flood zone. As a result, he continues, all his potential customers who’d bought sections in the village were unable to build on them. “Business was arrested.”

223: The temporary HYDRO VILLAGE was built, he says, about three miles north of MANAPOURI with a supermarket, gas station and fire station so his plans to build a garage behind the petrol pumps were also halted.

267: Backtracks again and after giving a few more details of jobs he did in SYDNEY, he says it was an offer to help sell life-insurance in TARANAKI that brought him back to NEW ZEALAND at the age of 21.

285: Says he earned nine pounds a week plus commission and the use of a new car.

291: Having returned, he was sent to LINTON for COMPULSORY MILITARY TRAINING. Recalls there were several written tests involved. From LINTON he was moved to WAIURU and into the artillery section.

325: Replies that compulsory service ended a few years later (late 1950s). Says he’s a member of the RETURNED SERVICEMEN’S ASSOCIATION (RSA) and at the age of 70 is ten years younger than the youngest person who served in WWII.

346: With his training completed, says he went back to his job in TARANAKI but his FATHER was ill in hospital and his MOTHER asked him to return home to help out.

362: Considers it was the right move because of his sense of belonging to the area “and indeed the place owns me as well, if you like, this is tangata whenua”.

370: (Slight blip with microphone dislodging again.) Says his FATHER came out of hospital but between times he (the participant) mowed the lawns, washed the dishes and did the laundry, which he remarks was done on the premises in those days, in two old BEATTIE washing machines.

375: It was around this time, he reflects, that he MARRIED his first WIFE, BARBARA MCKECHNIE (30 JUNE 1960). Says they’d met while her family was on holiday in MANAPOURI. Replies her FATHER owned a large DRAPERY STORE in DUNEDIN and had financial partnerships in some FARM properties.

380: Comments that those FARMS had been bought during the DEPRESSION when people were thrown off the land because they couldn’t maintain the payments. So, he says, the properties would have been bought at a very cheap price. “This bore with it the burning ire of the neighbours forever.”

391: Back to the GRAND VIEW, says he started re-establishing his late UNCLE LES’ large and valuable garden. Adds that the village was hooked onto the NATIONAL GRID power supply around the time he and BARBARA married and recalls attending the BURWOOD “light-up ball”.

409: Replies that BARBARA is a couple of years younger than he is (microphone rumble here due to another dislodgement). States that after they’d met, they were able to go courting because he would sometimes find casual work in DUNEDIN during the winter.

Tape 8 Side A stops

Tape 8 Side B starts

001: Continues off-tape discussion about his offspring. Says he has four CHILDREN from his first MARRIAGE: GILLIAN (1960) who he says is a GUIDE at the ANTARCTIC CENTRE in CHRISTCHURCH.

018: The next CHILD, ROBERT (1965) is a PILOT living in QUEENSTOWN with his WIFE and young family. A third CHILD, ALICE (1970), he says, worked for some time in LONDON in THEATRE/DRAMA then lived in DUBLIN for a while after marrying an IRISHMAN. Says there are two CHILDREN from the marriage and that she is now living in QUEENSTOWN. A fourth CHILD, RUTH, he says was born in 1972. (Later, he said she works as an AIRLINE PILOT in HONG KONG.)

048: Jumps back to his varied job resume saying he worked briefly as a PAY CLERK for the CENTRAL POST OFFICE in DUNEDIN “the only office job I’ve ever had”.

057: Diverts again to remembering how he’d overheard a derogatory remark about himself that “he wants to be all things to all men”. Having mulled it over, he says he came to the conclusion that for four generations, the MURRELLS had had to be like that. Explains this further.

073: Makes a brief reference to helping set up the TE ANAU AMBULANCE SERVICE for which he worked as a VOLUNTEER AMBULANCE OFFICER for a while after learning the necessary training.

080: Affirms the AMBULANCE SERVICE was initiated by RON PALMER and that he (the participant) helped the builders assemble the first garage to house the second-hand AMBULANCE. Says the building stood between the present MEDICAL CENTRE and FIORDLAND ELECTRICAL.

094: Explains that RON PALMER came to TE ANAU as MANAGER of FIORDLAND TRAVEL’S MANAPOURI office. It was at the time, he says, that he too did a few odd jobs for LES HUTCHINS (then owner of FT). “I served my time twice in the PILGRIM (launch vessel), once under UNCLE LES and once under LES HUTCHINS.”

105: Recalls taking his LAUNCHMASTER’S test not long after he was MARRIED and passing at the first attempt – a notable accomplishment for its rarity, he reports.

114: States his ticket is not only for MANAPOURI, but for any sheltered waters in NEW ZEALAND up to a limited area and for ten miles outside of sheltered water. Remembers he was working at a time when “you had one motor, no radio and they really did like to think you would get your passengers home alive, no matter what”.

127: Affirms that his UNCLE LES’ launch business was sold following his death (early 1953) and was bought by LES HUTCHINS (1954). Says that because the latter was a man of “enormous initiative and a terribly hard worker” he’d made a better job of running the business than had his UNCLE.

137: Considers that his UNCLE was something of a visionary in that he was “dreaming of hovercrafts and unimaginable numbers of people and goodness knows what at a time when he could scarcely borrow enough money to fuel the launch”.

159: Remembers as a boy seeing his UNCLE work very hard, for example, by going round all the tents and campsites in the evenings to sell seats on his trip to WEST ARM, or he would suggest a trip to DUNCRAIGEN or to the NORTH or SOUTH ARMS (of LAKE MANAPOURI).

192: Back to his own experiences, states he once ran a TAXI SERVICE in MANAPOURI. Says he and BARBARA borrowed the finance to buy a second-hand HOLDEN which they had registered as a TAXI.

196: A year later, he says, they were able to trade in the vehicle and buy a brand new TAXI followed in quick succession by a second new one. This, he continues, was due to work having begun on the HYDRO POWER PROJECT (and the resulting sudden rise in population).

201: Recalls that because of strict currency controls, they did a deal with a neighbour who had OFFSHORE FUNDS (STERLING) and goes on to relate a tale in which he was explaining to a registration hearing that the woman was a “sleeping partner” - a term which, he says, aroused great hilarity among court officials in INVERCARGILL.

236: Says they ran the TAXI COMPANY until the mid 1980s by which time it had dwindled. Refers to a couple of more interesting runs he had to undertake into MILFORD SOUND including one for a JAPANESE AMBASSADOR.

280: Remembers that at its height, the business could afford to employ a TAXI-DRIVER as well as themselves.

287: It was quite common, he says, for people to finish their shift at WEST ARM and on arrival at PEARL HARBOUR request to be driven to INVERCARGILL or similar.

293: Calculates that one year they averaged two runs a week to INVERCARGILL and three runs a day to TE ANAU. “We were doing the kind of mileage that city TAXIS do.”

310: Referring to the running of the GRAND VIEW during those years, reminds the interviewer that in the early 1950s, it was still being operated by his AUNT EVA, then it was taken over by his PARENTS and himself (1959).

314: Recalls EVA lived a “very, very quiet life” some of the time but when she went away she loved shopping for clothes and was a “devil for the races”.

326: Speculates about her remaining unmarried and says she had been spoilt by her FATHER and that her MOTHER had carried out most of the domestic duties of the house. So, he continues, she had little idea what to do when left, at the age of 40, to run the household.

334: When he negotiated with the lawyer, MITCHELL, for funding to buy up the business, he remembers the investor saying that BURTON and ALICE were too old for him to be lending money while JACK was too young, therefore he would agree on lending to the three of them combined.

339: The deal was, he adds, that his PARENTS would live at the GRAND VIEW for good and that JACK would help them run the business. This changed, he says, after his BROTHER, BURTON, decided to return to UNIVERSITY instead of running the SHOP they’d built.

344: This, he says, avoided a lot of difference of opinion between himself and his FATHER who was not keen on changing the place in any way, while JACK wanted to expand so that they could take on a bus-tour-worth of guests.

349: Explains why he’s glad his FATHER stood his ground. One of the bus tour operators, he says, was block-booking for the entire season but refused to confirm until the last minute and then failed to take up the reservations. This, he says, resulted in several accommodation providers losing their business through insolvency.

370: Says he managed the SHOP for many years until his FATHER died (in 1980). The following year, he adds, he took a 3-month vacation to EUROPE and his SON, ROBERT, helped run the business as well as completing 7th form at FIORDLAND COLLEGE.

379: Having referred to the fact that both he and his SON had attended a DEBUTANT’S BALL (possibly a school-age tradition in the district), he mentions how one of his teenage fears had been undergoing the shame of being unable to dance at his own WEDDING. So, he says, at HIGH SCHOOL he took dance lessons “just in case”.

382: Illustrates this with a story about his UNCLES having walked all the way to MOSSBURN to attend a dance, only to hang around the door till it finished and then walked all the way back home again. Mentions that in those days there were COUNTRY DANCES across SOUTHLAND.

390: Adds that while living in INVERCARGILL he used to attend the PRESBYTERIAN BIBLE CLASS’ SATURDAY NIGHT DANCE and that the ROMAN CATHOLICS also had their own dances. Explains that religious segregation was more common than today and again illustrates this.

395: Interview closes and tape allowed to run to the end

Tape 8 Side B stops

113: Interview closes

A sixth interview, again at the GRAND VIEW, was recorded on 8 NOVEMBER 2004.

Tape 9 Side A starts

009: Responding to question about his early MARRIED life, says he and BARBARA lived at first in a room at the GUESTHOUSE.

019: Replies that BARBARA’S MOTHER had died in childbirth when BARBARA was a toddler. Goes on to say that she attended ST. HILDA’S SCHOOL in DUNEDIN at both primary and secondary levels before doing a DIPLOMA in AGRICULTURE at MASSEY UNIVERSITY.

073: Replying to question about the number of CHILDREN they had, says while he and BARBARA had the FOUR as stated, it was his MOTHER who suffered a “secret sorrow” in having given birth to a CHILD that did not survive. Adds it was something she never told him until many years later.

092: Mentions that when their second CHILD was born, BARBARA came into an inheritance which was enough money to buy a house in HOME ST, where they lived and brought up the family.

108: States his CHILDREN went to TE ANAU SCHOOL. Mentions again the HYDRO VILLAGE and its SCHOOL which the CHILDREN also attended during its temporary existence (the entire village was dismantled on completion of the project in the mid-1970s).

140: Recalls the community at MANAPOURI was asked whether it would prefer one of two options: the construction of a small school in the village; or the provision of a school bus to transport their children to and from the school in TE ANAU.

147: Says the residents opted for the bigger school with more skilled teachers and a greater range of activities and peers. Adds that what they didn’t factor in was having to organise a parental roster for taking the children to and from their myriad extra-curricular activities such as school football training, ballet classes or attending SCOUT meetings.

165: BARBARA, he says, was a member of the committee that helped plan and establish FIORDLAND COLLEGE (the HIGH SCHOOL in TE ANAU which opened in 1976).

172: States that GILLIAN went to JAMES HARGEST in INVERCARGILL for secondary education because, he says, she had already begun training in music, specifically the piano. Recalls she went on to take music at OTAGO UNIVERSITY along with other arts subjects.

194: ROBERT, he says, attended a HIGH SCHOOL in CHRISTCHURCH and that while there he went on a SCHOOL TRIP to SRINAGAR in INDIA.

205: Tape stopped for break then re-started where he picks up on the detail of the previous sentence. Says that following his return from INDIA, ROBERT settled into the 7th form at FIORDLAND COLLEGE.

251: Says his first MARRIAGE lasted 20 years and that he later REMARRIED to KLASKE EGBERTJE DE JÖNG who was born in FRIESLAND (NETHERLANDS).

263: Replies that her family immigrated to PERTH, AUSTRALIA when she was eight years old and went to school there, thus there is no DUTCH inflection in her ENGLISH, he says, unlike her older siblings who had learned ENGLISH from their DUTCH schooling.

269: States that at the age of eighteen, KLASKE, went to DARWIN where she MARRIED and raised a son and daughter in addition to running a FURNITURE business.

278: Recalls how he met KLASKE. Says she’d been touring NEW ZEALAND and made MANAPOURI her base while she went walking and on chartered boat trips in the area. She then took rental of a cottage near the property at GRAND VIEW. Says they were introduced by mutual friends and that they got on well together.

294: They have been MARRIED, he says, for 17 years.

303: Responding to question, says KLASKE took to the GUEST HOUSE business “like a duck to water” and that over the years she has introduced some major structural changes from nine bedrooms to four with ensuite bathrooms.

315: Recalls that when they were first MARRIED, evening meals were part of the B&B package and that KLASKE bought “nearly a metre of bookshelf-worth of cooking books, sat down and read them all from end to end” and improvised where necessary.

323: Says her cooking was superb and that he did the table waiting so that as a team they worked very well. Adds that it wasn’t until they could no longer work 16 hours a day that they gave up providing evening meals.

329: On whether his CLIMBING and its attendant use of his spare time affected their relationship, he explains that he was forced to give up the sport. Says that in 1985 (two years before they MARRIED) NEW ZEALAND’S economy was overturned by ROGERNOMICS (so called because the economic tools used were introduced by the then FINANCE MINISTER, ROGER DOUGLAS).

331: Says that as a result, many people’s lives were radically changed: a vast number of FARMERS, he adds, contemplated suicide and one or two in fact did so because of the shocking effects. “Anyone who’d done the right thing in all of NEW ZEALAND’S history and sold a FARM (then) bought a bigger one with a big mortgage, was in an impossible situation.”

340: As for his own business, he says “I had to just walk away from the GUEST HOUSE, go up to the shop and mind it myself and just hope and pray that the women who were helping me would resign for one reason or another and I simply didn’t employ someone else.”

345: Mentions he’d also started a DEER TRAPPING business but that overnight the price dropped from $1800 a HIND to zero. “Very few people have gone through such a big economic change as NEW ZEALAND did.”

352: Says he eventually had to shut down his DEER pens.

356: Referring to his CLIMBING pursuits, he talks again about his attempt at a second winter ascent of MT. COOK. Recalls going up the HAAST RIDGE in clear weather and then going into a blizzard through which he could scarcely see beyond 30 yards. So, he climbed back down the RIDGE and out.

367: Also mentions that he took about five attempts at CLIMBING MT TUTOKO. Says he was one of a group of CLIMBERS whenever he tried it and recalls part of the ascent was quite extreme but it was “truly wonderful” to be on top. Sometimes, he admits, they may not have reached the foot of the MOUNTAIN before dark so would have to bed down for the night on a ridge.

373: “But of course, in the morning you get dawns to die for.”

379: Again refers to his ascent of MITRE PEAK with EDGAR WILLIAMS and AUSTEN DEANS, and that they’d mentioned part of the face of MT PEMBROKE across MILFORD SOUND had not been attempted. This, he says, he’d remembered for a return ascent with another group to try the said route.

405: Replies that he went on a MOUNTAIN CLIMBING course and was trained by the famous MOUNTAINEER, GRAHAM DINGLE. Also says he was a committee member of the SOUTHLAND section of the NZ ALPINE CLUB and a few times was DEPUTY CHAIRMAN.

412: Returns to a particular CLIMB with fellow CLIMBER, BEV NOBLE, after they’d been ferried to the mouth of the THURSO RIVER to climb MT PEMBROKE.

Tape 9 Side A stops

Tape 9 Side B starts

002: Continuing the above tale, says the next day they reached the SKYLINE RIDGE from where they could see the MILFORD HOTEL. Says they carried on along the edge of the GLACIER up to the SUMMIT.

046: Says they were changing back into crampons when he got caught by a huge gust of upwind which lifted him into a sky-diving horizontal position and held him hovering above the ice. Minutes later, he continues, with a change in wind speed, he managed to scramble back to safety in a crab-like movement across the ice. Laughs at the memory.

075: Their next move was a descent to a couloir and remembers seeing the ice had melted into dimple-like shapes. On their way down, he recalls, they were buffeted by heavy rain and strong winds and that a large coffee table-sized piece of rock came sliding towards them at about 60kph.

122: A big thunderstorm then occurred to add to the worsening conditions and, he says, BEV was struck by a large rock severely injuring her shoulder. So, he continues, they sought shelter from behind a huge stationary boulder from where they then experienced a small avalanche.

134: Says rocks that were tumbling on the outside edge of the avalanche struck them and he recalls BEV being swept about 40 yards down to the top of a 1,000 ft precipice. But, he remembers, she crawled back to where he was still sheltering.

140: Mentions he was hit in the thigh by a rock, an injury which the doctor later suggested he would not survive if it became infected by blood poisoning.

146: Replies that he had left full descriptions of their gear, their expected return date and an outline of their planned route.

160: Says he’d also made plans to hire a helicopter if either one of them required to be flown out.

162: Recalls that BEV sustained three fractures, two on the clavicle and one on the shoulder and was unable to CLIMB. At the same time, his bruise ran from pelvis to knee. So while the one could not CLIMB up, the other could not CLIMB down.

175: Remembers that as they waited for rescue to arrive, they were able to watch the changes in the landscape as light and weather affected it. Gives some lucid descriptions of the visual and aural display.

198: As to their rescue, says that unbeknownst to them, there were public announcements stating that TRAMPERS in FIORDLAND caught out by the severe weather conditions were not to expect to be rescued. Instead, they were to wait the extra days until the streams and creeks abated when they could make their own way out.

209: Recalls that fortunately, BARBARA, had told the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK’S CHIEF RANGER (HAROLD JACOBS) where they were.

229: Says JACOBS sent a HELICOPTER in a day sooner than their outside ETA. Recalls seeing the rescue HELICOPTER making its approach towards them from a far distance “and it’s a rather marvellous and very, very exciting sight”.

236: Replies that the PILOT was BILL BLACK and that he spotted them, returned his searchers to base, so that he could load both of the injured onto the HELICOPTER when he went back to pick them up.

248: Affirms that SEARCH & RESCUE was another of his community involvements. Replies that the only RESCUE he went on (again with BILL BLACK and two others) was to recover a body from NGAI MA MOE following another CLIMBING accident.

261: Gives some lurid descriptions of the injuries sustained by the deceased as they found him.

272: States he was involved in SEARCH & RESCUE for about 20 years, particularly mountain rescues and cave rescues. Recalls they would do six practises a year, one a month in the winter.

280: Describes a CAVING EXPEDITION he took part in above KELLARD’S POINT in DOUBTFUL SOUND.

299: Referring to his interest in BOTANY says it was sparked by his FATHER who taught him and his siblings the names of all the species of flora on the near side of the river in ENGLISH, MAORI and their designated names (often in LATIN/GREEK).

314: Says during his CLIMBING days, he grew increasingly interested in the immediate geology, for example seeing glaciated rock high above the HOMER TUNNEL.

327: Mentions his FATHER telling him about GEOMORPHOLOGY, especially concerning GLACIATION and that he recalls a visit to GRAND VIEW by PROFESSOR COTTON who wrote the “ultimate textbook in GEOMORPHOLOGY”. Says he also attended a GEOLOGY course at BORLAND LODGE conducted by OTAGO UNIVERSITY.

339: Goes off on a tangent about shelter belts in paddocks.

347: Makes reference to another OTAGO UNIVERSITY course at BORLAND LODGE on BOTANY. One of the course lecturers, PROFESSOR ALAN MARK, who he describes as the author of the first textbook on NEW ZEALAND ALPINE BOTANY. Also states that half of the 1200 native species in NEW ZEALAND are ALPINES. Gives more details of the course. He later added that PROFESSOR MARK mentioned a CREEPING ALPINE SHRUB of the variety MURRELLII which may have been so named in honour of either UNCLE LES or YOUNG BOB. (Reference to this plant was made during a previous recording of this profile.)

368: On the subject of being appointed HONORARY RANGER in the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK (as were his FATHER, UNCLES and GRANDFATHER), he explains some of the background.

370: Comments that there is a tendency among PARK RANGERS to consider everyone else in the PARK “as a criminal”.

376: Adds that for the MURRELLS, since their income depended on the way others reacted to the local environment, “on people enjoying the place not being messed up, that’s what you do” (not mess it up).

377: Remarks that after the first ten years of its introduction, the NATIONAL PARKS ACT, supported something that otherwise may not have been prevented. Qualifies this saying that had someone wanted to go across the river and burn back the bush to run a few cattle, they wouldn’t have been able to do anything about it without the weight of the ACT behind them.

381: Reflects that it was the same with LES HUTCHINS, who he describes as a “marvellous conservationist” but admits that HUTCHINS was “simply protecting his own asset as well”. Adds that essentially the only reason they got a NATIONAL PARK running from MILFORD to PUYSEGUR POINT was because “they (the government) couldn’t think of anything else to do with it” (the land).

391: Back to his appointment as PARK RANGER, says it was based on a casual offer he’d made to undertake RANGER-TYPE duties around the MANAPOURI area and that this was later rubber-stamped.

401: Describes the CHIEF RANGER then, HAROLD JACOBS, as the “ultimate boy scout” who thought the best of everyone so that he was given an assistant CHIEF RANGER to tighten up the rules and regulations.

Tape 9 Side B stops

Tape 10 Side A starts

002: Responds to off-tape question on how GRAND VIEW was run in the days before running water and electricity were available at the turn of a tap or the touch of a light-switch. Says water was pumped from the river into 600-gallon tanks.

011: Remembers having to bring in the coal and keep the fire going in the lounge. Says they also had what he called a “destructor” in the washhouse for general hot water. Recalls the hot water running along an eighteen-metre pipe in the ground between the washhouse and the showers in the annexe. “It was bizarre…it did work but it was awful.”

022: Also remembers filling the lamps at night with kerosene. Later, he says, they had 110DC so there were electric lights, although visitors would be warned about switching-off time 20 minutes before they retired for the night.

026: Adds there was also the necessity of having someone strong enough to start the big single-cylinder diesel and then there was the noise factor if it was left on at night (which he demonstrates). “I’ve found my way to get home in the dark in the forest by the sound of this wretched motor.” He then gives another demonstration of the smaller motors that were used by his neighbours.

037: Mentions that when it was first installed in MANAPOURI (early 1960s) the power industry authorities wanted each household to sign a guarantee they would use 800 pounds-worth of electricity a year.

043: Remembers at the time they had just mortgaged themselves “up to the eyeballs” to buy over the house and business from his AUNT EVA so that they baulked at the cost of using that amount of electricity, especially as it would require further expensive renovations. He later added that they “got over it”.

083: Mentions that in the TE ANAU BASIN, one or two of the SHEEP STATIONS had already installed a form of HYDRO ELECTRIC POWER by diverting a creek on their properties and rigging up the necessary engineering devices such as a PELTON WHEEL and a generator.

089: On the telephone network says they did have their own phone but it was linked on a party line to several properties between the GORGE HILL and TE ANAU. “Our call was five short rings and if we wanted TE ANAU we’d ring four short rings, or the GORGE…three short rings, two for MOSSBURN and one for LUMSDEN.”

099: Says it worked adequately as they were the only residents then. Recalls the next person to move in permanently was GEORGE LINDSAY (and his WIFE, GLORIA). Remembers GEORGE building his log cottage across from the GRAND VIEW when he (the participant) was about ten years old (1945).

102: This was followed by the MCDONALDS who also built a cottage at about the same time, not far from the LINDSAYS.

113: Recalls, therefore, a system of subscribers was later introduced and they had “old-fashioned brass plugs, six subscribers…one line went down to DUNCRAIGEN where the MCKENZIES held the lease at that time.”

125: States the party line was not one in which one household could listen in to another unless a mistake was made at the exchange (at GRANDVIEW) by attaching the wrong plugs “which I did one day”.

132: Points out where the exchange was by throwing an arm in the direction of the far wall of the lounge and the kitchen.

161: Makes an aside comment about another resident named VERA FARGO, his UNCLE LES’ former girlfriend who lived down the hill.

170: In discussing LES HUTCHINS takeover of his UNCLE LES’ business, he mentions that the new owner moved it from the original wharf at the end of his garden (now the GLADE CAMP) to PEARL HARBOUR and competed fiercely for every customer.

174: Mentions that HUTCHINS bought the only rival launch business which was owned and operated by ROY MCDONALD (It was called the SEA PRINCE LAKE SERVICE after the name of the company’s vessel.)

181: At mention by the interviewer of the LANDS & SURVEY FARM BLOCK DEVELOPMENT which began in the district in the 1950s, he talks first about his BROTHER, BURTON, working for the TE ANAU RABBIT BOARD around that time before being transferred to its TAKITIMU equivalent.

197: As interviewer combines the L&S PROGRAMME with the other major work scheme, the already mentioned HYDRO POWER SCHEME at LAKE MANAPOURI, he agrees that these activities radically transformed the previously remote area in which he’d grown up. Says he’s happy to say he knew well that nearly all the flat areas in the BASIN had been covered in TUSSOCK and he talks about the geological formation of these level sites.

232: Comments that the changes he has witnessed have been “cataclysmic”. Says in his lifetime, the stock units in the district, or carrying capacity (FARMING) has increased 44-fold. “That’s an enormous advance and like the POWER STATION, I have to say it’s a very wise use of a natural resource.”

245: Suggests that if the present number of stock units was doubled again (88-fold) there would be much more environmental damage than an increase in the number of annual tourists to the BASIN by double its present figure. Explains this further.

274: By using as an example the CHASM walkway, he illustrates his theory that if a BUSH TRACK were constructed well, it would result in far less damage to the surrounding environment than one that was not strong enough for its carrying capacity.

294: Mentions experiencing similar TRACKS and facilities in SWITZERLAND.

312: Predicts that both TE ANAU and MANAPOURI will be shaped into versions of their CENTRAL OTAGO counterpart, the resort conurbation of QUEENSTOWN. Remarks that a few years ago he asked a local planner whether he knew where the CASINO would be built in MANAPOURI, and that if not, he was incompetent.

317: “QUEENSTOWN is different, but I personally love it because it’s full of energy and initiative….It’s one of the few places in NEW ZEALAND where the free market will march right over the top of you if you’re not careful.”

331: Opines that MILFORD SOUND must be managed to provide facilities that can cope with up to 12 million visitors a year (at present the figure is estimated at 600,000) and that it will have to cater for large cruise vessels taking the tours that are currently available on large catamaran-style vessels.

354: Interview ends

Tape 10 Side A stops