RUSSELL MacLENNAN GLENDINNING

Interviewer: Jenny Campbell

Abstracter: Jean Hawkes

TRACK 1

00:00 Interview identification

00:29 RUSSELL MacLENNAN GLENDINNING born CATLINS, SOUTH OTAGO Born 1937 – Circumstances of birth – Explained. TAUTUCK (TAUTUKU) – BALCLUTHA – Mentioned

01:29 Parents involved in sawmilling – Father mill manager – Family business started in STEWART ISLAND – CATLINS 1927

01:52 Self attended at CATLINS – Schools moved to populated areas – 8 schools in 12 mile area – Some schools – Described. Railway children – Mentioned.

02:14 Education basic – Aspirations of young men and young ladies – Described. Many children went to university.

02:57 Freedom of childhood – Described. War years help with providing food – Described.

03:31 Self sent to boarding school in TIMARU – Conditions – Described Conditions compared with those at CATLINS.

03:58 Communication (at CATLINS) via Railway – Explained. Events, including funerals, dependent on railway.

04:32 Life revolved around hills (little knowledge of other places) DUNEDIN – CHRISTCHURCH – FIJI – Mentioned

04:48 Teachers given compulsory country service – Children's reaction to teachers. Schools ranged from 6 or 7 children to 30 or 40

05:49 Some teachers very good – Mother took in single men – Self's difficulties in addressing the men AUCKLAND – CHRISTCHURCH – Mentioned

06:19 Ice creams unheard of – Alternative – Described.

06:30 Self 13 year old boy 'lost' at boarding school – Uncomfortable – Disciplined by Masters – Heirachy system

06:56 Annual school trip to DUNEDIN – 4ZB Radio Station interview – Described.

07:30 (Country) Children self-sufficient – Life skills carried on as adults

07:44 Childhood fascination RAILWAY – Passion – Lifestyle after boarding school from age 15

08:18 Mother GLADYS ADA SUTHERLAND – one of her parents from SHETLAND ISLANDS and the other from AUCKLAND ISLANDS (NOTE: Perhaps this should be ORKNEY) – settled in RIMU, near INVERCARGILL – moved to COLAC BAY.

08:59 Mention of grandmother's tent at COLAC BAY

09.10 Mother born HAPPY VALLEY near TE TUA – attended COLAC BAY SCHOOL.

09:17 Father's parents from SCOTLAND – Settled TUATAPERE area – Grandfather was head shepherd for BLACKMOUNT STATION – Retired to PAPATOTARA near TUATAPERE where father brought up. Father's name ANDREW ANDERSON GLENDINNING – Apprentice in grocer's shop – Paid with gold – Described. Work during depression – Described. Mid 1920s met future wife – Romance disapproved of but continued – Described.

11:06 1926-27 Saw-milling moved to CHASLANDS in CATLINS – Parents' romance continued. Mother's parents took her dowry – Inheritance taken – Love of grandparents never waned.

11:59 Own parents happily married 40 years – Self only known child – May have been a brother.

12:24 Treatment of unmarried mothers – Described. 'Shot-gun' marriages – Mentioned.

13:42 Memories of home on TAUTUKU PENINSULA – Described.

14:41 Move to MACLENNAN – Home – Described

15:00 End of Track 1

TRACK 2

00:02 House bought in MACLENNAN – Most memories from this time

00:37 Self returns often to TAUTUKU – Recollections Whaling area – Maori settlement – Described.

01:22 School – Actions of teacher towards School Inspector – Described.

02:26 Whaling stations closed – Pots and whale bones still present when self was a child. Most moved into sawmills

02:56 Talk of whalers' cemetery on PENINSULA.

03:20 Early Maori settlement on sandhills – Collecting bones – Described. Bones eventually to OTAGO MUSEUM LES LOCKERBIE – Curator of OTAGO MUSEUM

04:54 Shipwrecks included – 'OTAGO' – 'MANUKA' – Described.

05:59 School trip – Loss of gentleman, never found.

06:30 Self's involvement with school and students – Some highlights of adult life Move to LUMSDEN – Self involved with looking after senior pupil at school – Adult supervision for trips – Conditions – Described

07:07 Special experiences for children where self brought up – Described Experience affected girls the most – Explained.

08:08 Good relationship with teachers and pupils – Learning experience for all. Memories treasured by self. Continued for about 19 years

08:42 Interviewer a senior teacher – good friend of self. LUMSDEN DISTRICT HIGH SCHOOL (now NORTHERN SOUTHLAND COLLEGE)

09:15 Education of self was basic – learned a lot from children's projects etc. JENNY CAMPBELL – Mentioned

09:34 Elderly adult helper caught by a wave – Incident – Described. Strict allocation of food – Described.

10:37 Cooking facilities – Described. Sleeping arrangements in early camps.

10:51 Building of hall and the crib – Described. Crib originally the house.

11:29 Cooking and improvising – Explained. Some awful concoctions eaten when hungry.

11:52 Hall built due to popularity of PENINSULA at holiday time – Described. 12:12 Father provided timber from mill – Transport of timber – Described. Built by the men – Used for local functions Erected prior to self going to high school c1946-1950

13:16 Holidays were 4 miles over the hill – MACLENNAN TO TAUTUCK. 13:43 Permanent resident – IKEY (?) BATES had fishing boat 'DUCK' TAIAROA and ELLISON [OTAKOU FISHERIES] Special mention of ELLISON family – Oral history shared with local children Religion – Christianity...

15:00 End of Track 2



TRACK 3

00:00 … Farming on PENINSULA – Described. Introduction and eradication of rabbits TAKITIMU MAORI – Mentioned Effect of river on stock movement – Vegetation adapted to salt – Beautiful farm land

01:34 Old woolshed and homestead – Original owners HURRING family Whaling – Sawmilling – Flaxmilling – Plunge dip – Mentioned

02:53 Tractors at the end of the beach – Use – Described.

03:55 Grandmother – Described. Journey by horse and dray across river – Described.

05:13 Horses, sledges and drays left on PENINSULA – Movement of supplies – Explained Catching horses – Described. 06:07 Beach conditions – Described. Rata trees – Mentioned Birdlife – Parrakeets – Tuis – Pigeons – also Native Bat – taken for granted.

06:58 [ERAS]: Whaling – Sealing – Flaxmilling – Flax planted in specific area Importance of flax in war time -Need dwindled and faded away.

08:04 Sawmilling commercially in CATLINS about 1920s – Difficult access – Rimu timber – Mills ceased in 1960s – Sawmillers selected only best timber. Regrowth – Area now a Reserve.

09:17 Usage of timber and land – Described.

09:58 During self's early childhood – 8 sawmills SUTHERLAND BROTHERS – MONCUR and TOBIN – SMITH BROTHERS – COOK BROTHERS – HOGG & COMPANY – FLETCHERS – OLLERDIGE (?) – McCULLOCH – Mentioned

10:47 FLETCHER'S TIMBER among last to mill timber there.

10:56 Option to move or close a mill – Explained Mills – Labour intensive

11:29 Horses at the scene – Mills – Basic mill workers (many were vagrant) – Described Most had awful jobs but they did them.

12:26 Self's awareness of holocaust – Settlement in New Zealand of Jewish prisoners of war.

13:03 Saw mill operation – Described. Special mill horses used – Behaviour – Described.

14:06 Use of steam locos or converted farm tractors later

14:21 Rope 'messages' in bush – Actions of Blackie (horse) – Described...

15:00 End of Track 3

TRACK 4

00:04 … Horse searching for food in lunch bags – Described. Men's reactions.

00:55 Accidents – Rare considering machinery and number of men – Some quite serious – Next doctor at OWAKA Actions required in case of accident – Described

01:34 Some types and causes of injury – Described 02:20 Sicknesses – Problems then compared with present time – Transport problems Availability of medications including morphine

03:03 Doctor in area each week – Indication for doctor's call – Described. Nearest hospital at BALCLUTHA – Many deaths due to lack of medical help.

03:45 Method of stitching wounds – Described.

03:59 Use of tar pot for injuries – Explained

04:57 Tar used by father to treat injury – Described 05:12 No ACC (Accident Compensation Corporation) – Small amount of money from government. Injury to or loss of breadwinner – Support from community – Described. Mill house available to family if breadwinner died.

05:52 Diseases – Infantile paralysis – Meningitis – Not much flu [influenza] – Cancer never talked about – Mumps – Measles

06:50 Self had polio [poliomyelitis] – Epidemic in 1947 – Described Effects on self compared with girl in the area. Mother's treatment used warm methylated spirits

07:42 Self's description of onset of poliomyelitis – Castor oil also part of mother's care. Other victim – Girl PETERSON – Became very academic and did well overseas

08:54 Clothing – Hand-me-downs Use of sugar and flour bags – Described

09:59 Lot of knitting done – One pair of boots for good

10:16 Cow milking – Efforts of self and others to keep warm – Described

11:06 Dairy factory at OWAKA – One called HEATHCOTE at CHASLANDS – STEWARTS between us [GLENDINNINGS] and TARCOPE (TAHAKOPA) a cheese factory

11:27 Transport of milk – Described. House milk separated – Remainder to dairy factory

12:01 Disciplines at primary schools and at college – Described. School at MACLENNAN – Mentioned Boarding school – Timetable – Described

14:30 Learned somewhat reluctantly – Prepared for disciplined adult life

14:54 Self learned a lot at boarding school – Hated every single minute...

15:00 End of Track 4

TRACK 5

00:11 … Coping with 'foreign' subjects at boarding school – Problems with Maths and English History – Self determined to do best he could – Parents sacrifices. Loved English and History – Relevance of some subjects for some students

01:42 School Report comments – Described.

02:21 Self only 'bush child' at the high school – Most went to WAITAKI BOYS Self's cousins had been at TIMARU BOYS

02:31 Friendships – Self didn't fit mould at boarding school – Maybe 2 good friends from 175 boys

03:00 Comment made – “Without sawmillers there would be no houses to live in”

03:19 Pocket Money – Not aware of money until boarding school – Any money earned for rabbit skins etc put into family 'kitty' Financial situation at boarding school – Described. Money for church – Attendance three times on Sunday – Described.

04:19 Limitations applied to spending pocket money – Described.

04:35 Assistance from 'Day Boys' to buy ice creams – Described. 05:00 Always under the control of somebody else – Couldn't leave school grounds Conditions – Explained.

05:19 Discipline at primary school – Certain rules – Described Self's view on corporal punishment (strapping) – Teachers very helpful with lesson problems.

06:04 High school discipline involved the cane – Prefects able to administer cane in Prefects' Court

06:21 Preferred discipline in primary school – Explained Boarding school – 'Historical' punishment Everything based on the history of the school

07:18 Discipline at home – Father an army man – Discipline firm but loving Conditions – Explained

07:53 Home tasks – Daily chores – Described.

08:36 No primary school homework – At boarding school 3 hours after tea

08:52 Self 'walked out' from boarding school one weekend – Described

09:27 Social aspects relating to money – Violence not apparent to children – Alcohol a big problem – Home brew

10:41 Grocery bill might trade dozen egg for one pound of butter – Farmers particularly would swap produce for other items

11:05 Not much money – Understood not to be a problem

11:21 Father a happy alcoholic – Sure violence in some households but self didn't know.

11:45 In adult life self been involved with drinking aspect of community – Comments

12:29 Entertainment – Lot of talent – Dances Numerous Balls – Sports – Bachelors' – Saw Mill Ball Occasional entertainment – Described

13:28 Everyone attended the various functions – Some of self's finest memories Catering – Described People 'happy' NOT drunk

14:11 Old books of district – Dances – School concerts – School Prizes – Described

15:00 End of Track 5

TRACK 6

00:00 … After school prize giving always a dance.

00:08 Movie theatre at OWAKA – Mobile projectionists – Hall facilities – Described. Silent movies Self remembers 'Gungadin'

01:05 School projector – Silent film supplied by Education Department – Script in school journal

01:27 Sport – Father avid sportsperson – Self involved with athletics – Mandatory to be involved in team sports – Olympic Champions from the area – Mr LECKIE

02:59 Activities of saw mill transformed into sports meetings – Explained Local team travelled as far as WOODLANDS, SOUTHLAND Method of travel – Described

04:21 Rugby ground at CHASLANDS – Described

04:47 School sports at OWAKA – Team representing SOUTH OTAGO chosen DUNEDIN – Distances travelled – MATAURA – Mentioned

06:06 Life skilled childhood – Described Lifelong friendships made

06:47 Closure of sawmills – Father had an accident – Small business in OWAKA – Mother did not want to move – Negotiations with WRIGHTSONS (Wright Stephenson & Co) – Father did not cope with retirement – died aged about 71 in an institution (he was probably about 3 years younger than this) Despite alcoholism father was a good dad – never violent

09:10 Where would people be without care of parents for first 15 years of life? Care for them in their old age? Use of institutions is sad.

09:52 Mother always a housewife – At OWAKA welcomed girls with pre-marriage pregnancies – Home always full of people

10:58 Mother did lot of craft type things and baking for Bring-and-Buys and charities. Preferred not to have efforts acknowledged

12:14 Self's fascination with trains and rail travel from age 5 years. Before leaving boarding school self applied to join Railway – joined at age 15 as a labourer – Described.

13:31 Studied – Gained qualifications – Aspiration to work for 40 years – Self lucky – Went to many places with variety of trains. Eventually found niche on KINGSTON FLYER in 1971 – 36 years later still there. Lifetime passion – Great time on railway Opportunities from KINGSTON FLYER – Explained

15:00 End of Track 6

TRACK 7

00:00 [TIMELINE]: Left school at 15 – Started in DUNEDIN – at 16 country service BALCLUTHA – 17 back to DUNEDIN – PALMERTSON – MILTON – CROMWELL – RANFURLY – OMAKAU – TARCOPE – BALCLUTHA (again) – CLINTON – BLUFF – TUATAPERE – Enjoyed country service

01:17 Accommodation – Single men's compounds – Described Wages – Started at one shilling and ten pence an hour (about 20cents in today's money) – One pound (one dollar) to last fortnight.

02:37 Money earned possums and things banked by parents – Eight hundred pounds when self reached 21.

02:58 First money could spend on self as desired – Explained.

03:44 Move through the levels of duty – More important trains – Shunting – Goods Trains, local and long distance – Express Discipline learned at boarding school – Applied to railway employment – Explained.

04:40 Top of trade as fireman on steam engines – Engine driver training – Explained.

05:04 Special grading self one of top ten per cent in New Zealand. Father's comment correct “You get nowhere without education”

05:43 Promoted – in charge of BLUFF Depot – 1971 offered job on KINGSTON FLYER

06:07 1971 arrived LUMSDEN to a railway house.

06:11 Government's involvement with KINGSTON FLYER – Explained. NORTHERN SOUTHLAND – Mentioned After 9 years 'FLYER' was exited to INVERCARGILL 1982 train returned to NORTHERN SOUTHLAND

07:11 Passengers carried – Lost money in only one year of service (broke even)

07:31 Political attitude of the day – Explained.

07:48 Initially train travelled from LUMSDEN to KINGSTON twice daily in summertime At other times line used by goods trains

08:16 Financial boost to district – Described

08:45 School rolls increased.

08:49 Closure of railway LUMSDEN – some 60 children left he primary school

09:00 Privatisation did not help small communities

09:06 Move of train to INVERCARGILL unsuccessful – Group got train back to travel from KINGSTON to FAIRLIGHT

09:25 'FLYER' provided first protest in LUMSDEN – Described

10:06 With the arrival of 'FLYER' locals inclined to make use of rail for transport of goods LUMSDEN – INVERCARILL – MOSSBURN – BALFOUR – KINGSTON – Mentioned

10:49 Closure of branch lines – Mentioned

11:00 1982 – FLYER between KINGSTON and FAIRLIGHT – Self still involved to a lesser degree Not a restored train – Is as it always has been.

11:51 Two different engines – Maintenance of whole train – Help from others Big and expensive job

13:03 Use of train for school camps

13:28 Changes in management – From total government railways management to Trust management – Described.

14:15 Original Trust members – MAX NAYLOR a farmer – MR BROWN a motelier – Manager of FIORDLAND TRAVEL (now REAL JOURNEYS) – Accountant from DUNEDIN – Another name not recalled...

15:00 End of Track 7

TRACK 8

00:00 … Committee of five arranged initial funding – Operation of 'Flyer' run as a business Channelling of money to other businesses – Explained

00:26 Train allowed to run down – No money for the work After negotiation Railways took ownership again for eight years Self appointed manager – Conditions – described.

01:30 Annual visit from railway heirachy – Did not lose money.

01:46 Train sold to Kingston Acquisitions – Kingston Flyer Steamtrain formed within the company – Train always broke even or made a profit.

02:37 Self had a great life – Lived childhood dream – Driving at aged 68 but easing out slowly – (at time of interview) still driving while training others

03:33 Self involved with Steam Qualification throughout New Zealand – Unit Standard assessment for NZQA [New Zealand Qualifications Authority] – Drive train to keep own qualification current – Look after track

03:58 Letting go never easy – No difficulty finding young people to train – Retaining them is a problem – Explained.

05:00 Own thoughts towards young people driving train – Described. Different work ethics to self due to many changes

05:32 Self did about 53 years service and not retired – Present system of work different

05:58 NZQA assessment system qualification – Cross-reference with other countries. Person's return from ZIMBABWE – 'KINGSTON FLYER' training recognised Conditions [in Zimbabwe] – Described

07:00 [CHANGES]: KINGSTON basically railway settlement – FAIRLIGHT had nothing Original hotel at KINGSTON burnt – One built on station platform (station and hotel in one building) Conned railway manager – Station bell in exchange for OTAUTAU station – Explained.

08:40 Train turns at FAIRLIGHT – Gift shop – Memorial Garden for a driver that was killed

09:13 [SAD EVENTS]: Person being trained to take from self was killed in motor accident Fiancee worked on train as well.

10:12 Self lives at KINGSTON – Community described – Self involved with Council – Harbourmaster – Ambulance Officer – Fish and Game Ranger

11:00 Self will stay at KINGSTON as long as possible – Need for support from health agencies to be recognised

11:22 Necessary to leave KINGSTON to do most things – Explained.

11:34 'Wrap-up' by interviewer

12:38 End of track 8