Person recorded: WILLIAM JEFFREY CARTER Date: 16 October 2007

Interviewer: Morag Forrester

Tape counter: Sony TCM 939

Tape 1 Side A

006: States he is WILLIAM JEFFREY CARTER born 19 JANUARY 1949 in GORE, adding that his FATHER owned and ran a cycle and motorbike retail and repair shop in the town.

021: Replies that his FATHER was WILLIAM ALBERT CARTER and that his family originated from the neighbouring town of MATAURA.

024: His MOTHER, he says, was born RUTH ELLEN HANNABUS and her family immigrated to NEW ZEALAND from BRITAIN when she was two years old.

028: Mentions having one BROTHER, STEPHEN, and one SISTER, BEVERLEY and replies that his MOTHER did not work outside of the home while they were growing up.

036: His education, he says, was undertaken at GORE PRIMARY SCHOOL followed by GORE HIGH SCHOOL which at that time (early-1960s) was the only secondary school in the district.

046: Replies that he disliked being at school – all he wanted to do was “go out and SHOOT DEER or rabbits or something”.

051: “I nagged DAD to give me his .22 RIFLE and he let me have it when I was sixteen.” Without his own car, he says, he hitchhiked to the HOKONUI HILLS where he went rabbit-shooting.

064: Having gained his SCHOOL leaving certificate at the age of sixteen, he says his FATHER was keen for him to work in the bike shop and had recommended an apprenticeship in MOTOR MECHANICS. But it was not a job for him.

078: His next move, he continues, was working with a MEATHUNTER, named ALAN WEIR, in the MANAPOURI area. This was followed by about a year at a small agricultural workshop until he’d saved enough money to buy his own boat so that he could go MEATHUNTING on his own.

093: Replies that it was the early 1970s when he bought the 14ft aluminium outboard motor boat. Although he can’t remember how much it cost, he says his FATHER loaned him some of the cash towards it.

104: Recalls that VENISON was selling at 32cents/lb and after MEATHUNTING for a week, during which time he SHOT about eight DEER, he was able to pay off the loan in full.

115: HUNTING was “something I just dreamt about and…just loved it”. He also says that he vowed to himself that he would not follow the pattern of many of his friends who got married at a young age and ended up struggling for money.

126: Says he had been DEERHUNTING in other parts of FIORDLAND before working with WEIR in MANAPOURI, notably the HOLLYFORD and EGLINTON VALLEYS. He also recalls that the first DEER he SHOT (at the age of seventeen) was in the WESNEY CREEK area of the EGLINTON.

136: Describes what happened and that the RIFLE he used was a .303. He adds that after SHOOTING the animal, he SKINNED it despite not having been shown how to.

146: “I just butchered it off…pulled it ‘n’ pushed it ‘n’ hacked it ‘n’ managed to get it off.” But it was not in a saleable condition, he admits. The ex-WWII military .303 RIFLE, he adds, cost him about £5.

173: When he was MEATHUNTING in the MANAPOURI area, he says, he sold the CARCASSES to GARY HOLLOWS (who ran a depot alongside the UPUKERORA RIVER to the north of TE ANAU) or EVAN MEREDITH (owner/operator of the VENISON FACTORY in the industrial area of the town).

177: Having mentioned the price being at 32c/lb, he says it fluctuated above and below that rate. But he also says that it was still good money considering that an AUTO MECHANIC in the early 1970s was earning $60/week.

186: Replies that ALAN WEIR also lived in the GORE district so they travelled to MANAPOURI at weekends by car and boat trailer. They SHOT in the AWE BURN and FREEMAN BURN areas of the NORTH ARM of LAKE MANAPOURI.

196: Mentions coming across more experienced COMMERCIAL MEATHUNTERS such as RUSSELL DAWSON, EVAN BRUNTON and DICK DEAKER.

215: Refers to also doing some POSSUM HUNTING and being paid about $5/skin at a time when petrol was costing $1/gallon.

225: After buying his own boat, he headed for the LAKE HAUROKO district where within two days he SHOT about six DEER. Adds that after about three weeks SHOOTING in that area he was able to buy a nearly new (1969/70) HOLDEN UTE (model 161) for about $2,300.

247: Explains that in those days, the HUNTERS had to GUT the DEER before selling the CARCASSES. GUTTING, he adds, involved removing the head and hocks (lower leg), windpipe, rear end, stomach, lungs and other internal organs so that only the CARCASS was left.

266: Another HUNTER he refers to was GORDON ANDERSON who, along with BRUNTON and DAWSON, was covering the BREAKSEA SOUND area “probably the best block in the whole of FIORDLAND…he just sent planeloads out”.

274: On LAKE HAUROKO, he says, a former government CULLER, JOCK MURDOCH, bought CARCASSES from the participant. At this stage, he says, MURDOCH worked sometimes with JIM KANE (SHOOTER for ALPINE HELICOPTERS).

266: At the same time as ALPINE HELICOPTERS was operating in the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK (FNP), he mentions that GRANT LEIGHTON and JOHN DENIS were involved in HELICOPTER-assisted MEATHUNTING in the LAKE HAUROKO area.

267: DENIS, he says, offered him a stint as GROUNDHUNTER (being dropped off by HELICOPTER first). “I used to get dropped up in the CAROLINE BURN and places like that and get a handful of DEER.” But soon he was working from inside the HELICOPTER (sometimes referred to as a SHOOTING PLATFORM).

292: “When I first started I couldn’t even hit the ground I was standing on but…just practise and practise and practise.” He admits going through a lot of AMMUNITION and losing a lot of DEER when he began SHOOTING from the HELICOPTER.

296: Replies that he was working for JOHN DENIS who owned a HUGHES 300 B HELICOPTER as well as a boat for access along the WAIRAURAHIRI RIVER. GRANT LEIGHTON, he adds, was the PILOT and they flew around the mountains SHOOTING DEER which were ferried out by DENIS upstream to LAKE HAUROKO and transported from there to OTAUTAU.

303: Affirms that the PILOT (LEIGHTON) assisted the SHOOTER by positioning the HELICOPTER as closely as possible to the DEER. At the same time, he says, the SHOOTER’S job was to “always watch the TAIL ROTOR”, especially while jumping in and out of the machine.

313: Explains the SHOOTER had to jump out in order to hook the SHOT animals underneath the HELICOPTER. The distance he had to jump was anything from a few steps to eight feet below.

316: Despite the numerous times he undertook such leaps, he says he never sustained any injuries although in recent years he has suffered sciatica (in the spine) “but that’s because I jumped very high a few times”.

322: Recalls that there were times when the PILOT yelled at him to get out and “you just bail out ’cos you know you’re gonna go out anyway”.

326: Describes one occasion in the early 1970’s when he fell out of the HELICOPTER (PILOTED by GRANT LEIGHTON). He explains that he was strapped in with a car seatbelt. Having SHOT (and GUTTED) a lot of DEER, he says his hands were covered in blood, some of which had dripped into the seatbelt clip. As he leaned forward to take another SHOT, the seatbelt came undone and he fell out.

332: Says he hooked his arm over the toe of the SKID (on the HELICOPTER) and hung on while they were about 90ft above ground. He remembers later finding his RIFLE which he’d dropped while hanging on and says it was “wrecked”.

335: “I’ve had many numerous scrapes since then.” But he adds that in 2007 the job is much safer because of better HELICOPTERS and older PILOTS. “It’s just a different ballgame altogether.”

342: Back to the 1970’s, he says STROPS measuring between 6ft and 8ft long were linked to a hook under the HELICOPTER which the PILOT was able to release from the control dial. The CARCASSES were strung onto this long STROP by smaller ones.

350: Mentions that ALPINE HELICOPTERS had a monopoly on DEER RECOVERY in the FNP (from 1967 till1976 when the FNP BOARD opened up licensing rights – by permit blocks – to other HELICOPTER operators involved in the industry: see fuller explanation overleaf) while several other people were granted permission to work the forestry and reserve blocks outside of the PARK boundaries.

351: Working with LEIGHTON (pre-1976), he says, they occasionally ventured within the FNP boundary “when we thought we were on our own…no-one was watching us”.

353: Shortly afterwards, he says, he began working with JIM KANE (for ALPINE HELICOPTERS). Recalls KANE flew a HILLER 12E and that they’d often be away at about 4.30am not getting home before 11pm.

358: As an example of a typical day’s work for ALPINE, he says they would leave from the base the company had in the LILLBURN VALLEY and fly around the tops of LAKE KIWI or LAKE HAKAPU all day. The first DEER, he continues, might have been SHOT in a river and since it had to be retrieved, this meant putting up with wet clothing all day.

363: Says they rarely ate food during the day “’cos of the pressure of the job”. Goes on to say it was just a case of load in, load out (of the DEER). He adds that he did manage a TALLY of 100 DEER during one evening/morning excursion, although the days of such big numbers were just about over when he started with the HELICOPTERS.

366: “But that was what it was like…just daylight to dark seven days a week.” He adds that it was a job that left little room for a social life. “I’d say if it’s good enough weather for a barbecue you won’t see me, ’cos I’ll be over there, out in FIORDLAND.” Person recorded: Jeff Carter

376: Replies that when he began working for ALPINE HELICOPTERS, the company was still the sole operator granted a licence by the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK BOARD to undertake DEER RECOVERY work within its boundaries. It was towards the end of 1967 that the first three-year licence allowing DEER SHOOTING and RECOVERY within the PARK boundaries was granted solely to LUGGATE GAME PACKERS owned and operated by SIR TIM WALLIS. He invested equipment (HELICOPTERS and two large vessels as DEER holding/processing ships) and manpower (PILOTS/SHOOTERS/GUTTERS) so that he was granted licence renewal in 1970 by which time he was part of a consortium of VENISON processing companies that called itself GAME COLLECTION LTD. A third and final licence was issued to LGP which had become ALPINE HELICOPTERS in 1973 – provoking an outcry from other operators and interested parties. By 1976, after a couple of years of volatile prices, incidents of reported sabotage to ALPINE equipment and illegal “poaching” by some rival operators, the authorities changed the permit system and split the PARK into three blocks, one of which was allocated to ALPINE HELICOPTERS. The two remaining blocks were divided among the other operators on a roster-type system.

381: Mentions again that while working with LEIGHTON, on the HAKAPOUA SLIP he had just SHOT about eight DEER when LEIGHTON informed him that he was crossing back into the FORESTRY boundary (they were working about four miles inside the FNP) to avoid being caught by the authorities who were circulating the area in an NZRAF IROQUOIS.

386: “I had a yellow (jump)suit on and the rocks are sort of yellow and green so I blended in very well and they flew right over the top of me and hadn’t seen me.”

390: In hindsight, he says it was all “bullshit” since all the operators were SHOOTING noxious animals. (The government’s conservation policy was (and still is) to eradicate all “noxious” or non-native animals from NEW ZEALAND’S national parks and reserves in order to save the native vegetation from the damaging effects of browsing.) He also considers that ALPINE HELICOPTERS had no right to its monopoly because the FNP was publicly-owned (CROWN) land.

394: Mentions that apart from LEIGHTON and DENIS, other private operators included NELSON THOMPSON, KEITH NAYLON (a former ALPINE employee) and TONY PAUL. He adds that they all flew HUGHES 300 C-models.

404: ALPINE, he says, also operated the 300s, as well as HILLERS, progressing to the HUGHES 500 C-models – “that was the jet engine”.

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007: Starts by relating a situation while working for ALPINE HELICOPTERS with JIM KANE in a HILLER 12E as a GROUNDSHOOTING team for WALLIS (i.e. the SHOOTERS were dropped off in an area of the PARK and the DEER they SHOT were ferried out by HELICOPTER).

013: Says WALLIS selected the team he was in which as well as KANE, included JOCK MURDOCH and COLIN YEATES. The three HUNTERS were dropped off by KANE, each one in a different area.

020: Goes on to say that this was WALLIS’ way of preventing the private operators from recommending to the PARK BOARD that it should issue licences allowing them to bring GROUNDHUNTING teams into the PARK in much the same way.

025: Recalls that before he worked from the HELICOPTERS, WALLIS paid GROUNDHUNTERS 25c/lb ($25 for a 100lb animal) between three which worked out at about $8 each per DEER. “That was some of the best money I ever made in my life. We were just bringing out hundreds and hundreds of DEER.”

043: A lot of that work, he says, was in the SEAFORTH RIVER area at DUSKY SOUND, LAKE HAUROKO, LAKE POTERITERI and LAKE KIWI.

052: Discussing the brief period (JULY 1973) when the price of VENISON shot up to $1/lb (before he worked for ALPINE), he says just about everyone able to was out HUNTING at weekends since one 100lb animal meant $100.

063: Goes on to say that he and another HUNTER, JOE SPRING, hired a floatplane to take them into the LAKE MONK area where he SHOT twenty-one DEER in the same number of days. The winter weather, he adds, was cold enough for the CARCASSES to be strung up outdoors for so long without going rancid.

076: Having not brought enough supplies to last him beyond ten days, he says he resorted to eating KEAS and bits of the unwanted DEER flesh. Shelter was a temporary canvas tent/hut.

101: Remembers that the price didn’t stay at $1/lb for long and explains that on one occasion he had SHOT six animals in the LAKE HAUROKO district and brought them out thinking he was on a $600 winner. But overnight the price plummeted back to 32c/lb which meant his haul totalled only $180. “That was one of the biggest heartbreaking things I’ve ever had in my life.”

118: After the licensing permits for the FNP became more liberal, he says eventually there were not as many private operators in the area anyway because the DEER were far fewer in number so that HUNTING with expensive-to-operate HELICOPTERS had become less financially viable.

121: LIVE CAPTURE of DEER, by then had evolved as a better option, (especially as more farmers were interested in this new venture, pioneered by the likes of WALLIS and the WOODFORD BROTHERS of MOSSBURN).

124: By then (1976/77), he says, he had left ALPINE and was working with JIM KANE (who had also left to set up his own HELICOPTER DEER RECOVERY OPERATION). KANE, he says, had bought a HUGHES 300 C-model (ZK-HEO). They worked around the WAIKAIA district, he says and at that stage a LIVE HIND was worth about $70

135: In one week, he says, he caught 100 DEER – 67 of them in two days. But although $700 for a week’s work seemed a lot of money then, he says, they ended up with much less since quite a few of the animals died within just days.

138: Replies that the method he used to catch the DEER then was called “BULLDOGGING” which he explains in more detail. In summary, it meant jumping out of the HELICOPTER onto an animal’s back and wrestling with it to tie its legs together with short STROPS which were then attached to the long STROP under the HELICOPTER.

147: “It was hard work. I wouldn’t do it now.” In the early days, he says, it was just HINDS but later he also BULLDOGGED STAGS and is glad at not having lost an eye or any other body part in the process.

157: Some of the animals, he recalls, weighed between 150lb and 200lbs and tried to kick and bite after he’d jumped and wrestled them to the ground. There were no sedatives used, he says, and in the early days he only had bits of cheesecloth material to tie their legs together.

173: “We were the pioneers, we were the cutting edge of technology…this was something exciting in those days.” Later, he continues, they tried using drugs via a DART GUN. Recalls the one they tried was a muscle relaxant but in many cases the animals died.

209: They reverted to the BULLDOG method, he says, adding that once tied, the animals were slung upside down under the HELICOPTER to be airlifted out. The aim was not to have to carry them too far because after a long journey they bloated up and died.

211: On arrival at base, he says, they were put in a DARK ROOM (PEN) before being released into a grass paddock. He remembers one occasion when he had “dogged” twenty-one DEER but only one survived the ordeal because heavy rain flooded their paddock which, combined with the stress of being caught, resulted in so many dying.

225: Some while later (c.1978), he went back to working for ALPINE HELICOPTERS, mainly as CREW for one of its PILOTS, DICK DEAKER. By then, he adds, WALLIS had introduced NET GUNS for use in LIVE CAPTURE – the first being a two-barrelled NET GUN.

230: Effectively it was a modified .303 RIFLE from which the projectile was removed and the mesh NET was fired out from the gun carriage. But, he says, it caused such an explosion that it almost tore off his finger. So, he modified the system again by reducing the amount of ammunition which only worked if the animals were heading uphill and into the path of the projected net.

244: The early versions, he says, caused quite serious kickback as the loaded NET and weights were blasted from the gun carriage. As a result, many of the SHOOTERS suffered serious shoulder injuries.

247: “It used to slam your elbows back into the side of the HELICOPTER ’cos you’re half hangin’ out the door.”

260: Replies that he and COLIN YEATES copied NELSON THOMPSON’S proto-type three-barrelled NETGUN which he describes as having been “very narrow and very sleek and (with a) very small NET”. They wanted a bigger NET, he says, so designed one that was 20ft by 20ft by 20ft - in a triangle with weights.

269: Mentions SYD DEAKER and GARY HOLLOWS were also involved in formulating this modified version while they were all still working for ALPINE HELICOPTERS.

278: Says the THOMPSON NETGUN was beautifully designed and made but just wasn’t big enough. The later modified versions, he adds, encompassed detachable barrels which contained the NETS and weights, making it easier to re-load them.

293: It was about the same time (early 1980s), he says, that he again left ALPINE and went to work for DICK DEAKER who had become a solo operator. Says they went into a shared partnership on a HELICOPTER (HUGHES 500C ZK-HQH) and that he enjoyed “some of the best money I ever made – bought a farm out of it” when LIVE DEER were fetching prices up to $3000 each.

303: After re-organising his thoughts, he says that by the early-to-mid 1980s, DICK DEAKER had bought out the participant’s third share in the HELICOPTER so that he could use the money to buy a farm (on KAKAPO RD, TE ANAU).

307: So, when he went back to working with DEAKER, the price for LIVE DEER was around the $3000 mark from which he earned 10%. Some days, he says, they managed to CAPTURE about ten animals but others maybe only one or none at all.

311: Says the 180-acre property he bought in the 1980s cost him about $80,000 (bare land). He adds that his aim was to stock it with DEER since he’d predicted that DEER FARMING was a potentially profitable venture.

322: Referring back to the different types of RIFLE he used for DEERHUNTING, he says that when he worked with JIM KANE in the HILLER 12E, he used an FN-SLR (self-loading RIFLE). This was followed by a SIG which he wasn’t comfortable with.

329: The next model, he says, was a BROWNING (semi-automatic) which he modified by extending the magazine on it so that he could have a single run of 15-16 SHOTS. “I used that for many, many years.”

332: In 2007, he continues, he owns an AK-47 .308 which he describes as an easy RIFLE to use. It also has red-dot scopes which lets the SHOOTER aim with both eyes open.

339: Replies that the LIVE DEER they brought out for ALPINE in the early 1980s were sold to farmers.

355: Mentions that when the price of LIVE DEER rose to $3000 each, the number of operators in the region also rose. But it as quickly fell away again as the prices tapered off. Only the “die-hards” were left, he says, even to present day – naming them as DICK DEAKER, RICHARD HAYES, MARK and KIM HOLLOWS – “they’re still in it to this day”.

Reference is made to the high accident rate among the HELICOPTER CREWS, particularly in the 1970s and 1980s. It has been documented elsewhere that by 1986 across NEW ZEALAND there had been more than 200 HELICOPTER accidents with half of those described as serious. The figures also show that 17 PILOTS and 25 CREW were killed as a result of those crashes.

366: Naming two of his former colleagues that were killed in the 1980s (JIM KANE and COLIN YEATES), he goes on to say that most of the accidents were due to PILOT error. He later added that GARY HOLLOWS was another colleague who died in a HELICOPTER accident in the same decade.

376: YEATES, he says, was killed in an “easterly” (wind) after the tail boom was cut off by the rotor blade (of a HUGHES 500) while KANE was killed after something malfunctioned with the HELICOPTER, although he admits there has been no confirmation of this.

380: Recalls having survived one HELICOPTER accident with KANE as PILOT and another with DICK DEAKER as PILOT. He goes on to explain what happened in the former which in summary resulted in the blades working out of synch with each other. When they crashed, he says, they lost their load of DEER which KANE had “buttoned off” before they hit a swamp. They managed to clamber out, all the time worried that the machine would burst into flames, which it didn’t in fact do. 390: That accident, he says, happened at WET JACKET ARM near DUSKY SOUND. Recalls trying to prise his foot out while KANE was yelling at him to get out. Meantime, one of the blades was whipping back and forth “so you time your run. The second that blade just as it’s coming down to hit the ground, I ran.”

401: Says he didn’t panic, had no sense of fear, but remembers every moment with crystal clarity.

404: The second accident, he says, was in the SEAFORTH RIVER area in a HUGHES 500C. He remembers hanging out the door, SHOOTING at a STAG and the engine went back to “flight idle” when the revs died.

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008: Continues with his account of the second accident saying that after hearing the engine die, he looked back at the dials and saw red flashes appear with the warning “engine out”. This time, he pulled his feet back into the machine before it hit the ground.

016: Which, he adds, was just as well since the impact wiped the SKIDS off. He says he and DEAKER waited for everything to stop and then climbed out of the machine, unhurt.

020: Mentions that shortly before the accident happened he had SHOT a DEER further up the SEAFORTH VALLEY and he had hooked the long STROP with chain under the HELICOPTER.

024: Explains that he regularly used to climb out onto the SKID to hook the chain underneath and jump down to where the DEER had rolled, hook it on and occasionally “ride the STROP” (hang onto the chain as the HELICOPTER was moving).

028: But, he continues, DEAKER objected to this activity, preferring the SHOOTER to climb back into the HELICOPTER. The engine having died moments after he’d got back onto the SKID, he admits that had he “ridden the STROP” then he’d not have survived the accident.

035: Says that as a PILOT, DEAKER is particularly safety conscious adding that “only very rarely did I ever ride the STROP”.

044: In later years, while working in the GALAPAGOS ISLANDS where he was employed to SHOOT thousands of wild goats, he says he was on the STROP all the time.

056: By the early 1990s after the VR work had come to a virtual standstill, he says he was employed for a while on an oil rig in NEW PLYMOUTH for two years. But he gave that up and went back to commercial SHOOTING, this time for JEFF SHANKS (of MILFORD HELICOPTERS) around the MILFORD SOUND area.

069: At that time, he says, SHANKS was new to MEATHUNTING and as a result the participant was able to have more of a say about directing the operation, for example about the best areas that DEER were likely to be browsing.

076: Because SHANKS had a commercial HELICOPTER business, he says most of the VR work was done early morning and evening.

084: Replies that he went to work on the GALAPAGOS ISLANDS (ECUADOR) in 2004 as one of a team of NEW ZEALANDERS employed to SHOOT goats on two of the ISLANDS – ISABELLA and SANTIAGO.

089: Considers that the team achieved the aim of eradicating the goats, adding that they SHOT 75,000 of them. Previous groups of GROUNDSHOOTERS had killed a further 75,000, he says.

096: Mentions that the NEW ZEALAND team also CAPTURED about 1200 JUDAS goats which were neutered and collared with radio transmitters then returned to their habitat in order to flush out more of the wild goats.

105: The project, he says was funded by the UNITED NATIONS through its GOVERNMENT ENVIRONMENTAL FUND.

110: Explains that the GALAPAGOS ISLANDS host several native species including the better known turtles. Adds that the devastation caused by the feral goats was “unbelievable” – although there were also wild donkeys that they had to SHOOT (1250 of them) because of the damage they did to native cactus bushes.

120: The job, he says, had been tendered internationally and several NEW ZEALAND operators, he says, were invited to apply. He adds that he had previously worked for the operator that won the contract (STEVE GAMBLE).

125: Other people who were part of the team, he says, included PILOT and ENGINEER, FRASER (DOC) SUTHERLAND, PHIL WRIGHT from the WEST COAST and another SHOOTER, SHANE BRAGG. Other PILOTS included STEVE COLLINS and GREG GAMBLE.

134: Apart from the work, he says they “spent two years there drinking beer and eating rice”. . 140: Replies that he still runs a DEER FARM and currently has about 300 DEER on it. He describes it as an extension to his lifestyle and after initially stocking the property with wild DEER that were difficult to manage he says the animals have become more settled.

158: Returning to the TE ANAU of the 1970s and 80s, he recalls that the town had a reputation as a place for “single men, and married men who want(ed) to be single”. Excluding himself from either category, he says he didn’t socialise much, particularly while working with JIM KANE who was “a bit of a hermit”.

166: Mentions that at one stage, he had been married and that he and his ex-WIFE, PAULINE (née CARRUTHERS), had two DAUGHTERS – MONIQUE and CHANTAL.

182: Replying that he keeps in regular contact with both DAUGHTERS, he says CHANTAL is a TEACHER and DEPUTY PRINCIPAL of a school while MONIQUE works for a financial institution in LONDON, UK.

186: Affirms that working in the VENISON INDUSTRY during its peak years in particular was a contributory factor in the breakdown of marriages and family life among some of his colleagues. “I was very straight but a lot of the other PILOTS weren’t…always other women hangin’ round.”

196: Glamour and hero worship were also some of the side effects for those in the industry, he says. “If you could fly a HELICOPTER, at that stage, you were a real GOD…lots of people thought that.”

200: Says there were also what they called the “SKID BITERS” who were so-called because they hung around the PILOTS and CREWS in much the same way as groupies and fans fawn around pop and rock stars in the music industry.

201: Having said all that, he insists that because he was focused on working, he was not subjected to much of the adulation. Sometimes, he says, he was HUNTING in the remoter valleys for several weeks or months at a time so avoided having to face any “SKID BITERS”.

216: Comments that while he enjoyed every aspect of his job then, he remembers how much pressure the PILOTS were under to perform, especially while working for ALPINE HELICOPTERS.

220: As a result, the PILOT would demand that the SHOOTER should make a successful target of all the DEER they located in a day on the hill.

236: On the recent re-introduction of MEATHUNTING in FIORDLAND, he says that for a number of years HUNTING of WILD DEER for VENISON had virtually ground to a halt because of the discovery of traces of 1080 poison in an overseas consignment.

240: A group of HUNTER/PILOTS, including DICK DEAKER and MARK HOLLOWS, he says (in 2004) relaunched the FERAL VENISON market and he has been working with them. He adds that they’d been SHOOTING and carrying out about one load (120 DEER) every two weeks, but it’s now closer to two loads a week.

247: The CARCASSES, he says, are sent to a processing factory in ASHBURTON. He also explains that changes in the farming industry (from DEER to DAIRY COWS) have resulted in a shortage of VENISON coming onto the market, thereby creating a greater demand.

265: The market price for FERAL VENISON, he says, is $4.70/kilo, adding that they average about $200 per DEER, so it’s not worthwhile to spend time messing around slips and clearings. He adds that the people he’s working with are wealthy enough to not have to be doing the job for financial reasons.

276: Admits that it’s a job more suited to younger men but he says there don’t appear to be any takers with any level of experience. “If someone comes along and has never done it…that’s a recipe for disaster.”

280: Saying again that he “loves” the job he’s been doing most of his life, he calculates that he has another two or three years in the industry before he will have to give it up.

290: “But you’ve gotta have a knack for it…you gotta be a bit twisted and cracked for it…you gotta be a bit different.”

Interview ends

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