Person recorded: Wilson Cameron Campbell

Date of Interview: 18 December 2003

Interviewer and Abstractor: Morag Forrester

Tape counter: Sony TCM 939

Tape 1 Side A

005: Gives DOB – born in 1918

008: Born in OWAKA, early childhood spent in TAWANUI

022: Says TAWANUI is in the CATLINS area.

039: Went to school in TAWANUI. Describes school as one teacher with about twenty pupils.

069: Recalls the use of the strap at school.

073: Remembers it being used on him, one with a brass button on the end. “It didn’t do me any harm.”

085: Finished there in Standard Five and family moved to BALCLUTHA where he went to primary school.

090: Says next step was SOUTH OTAGO HIGH SCHOOL.

103: Mentions his FATHER having a farm at TAWANUI which he sold.

111: Refers back to being at school there, having to walk about a mile to and from home each day.

116: Recalls how the children made their own fun. With more girls than boys, they played basketball which he did not get involved in.

136: Replies to question that his father’s occupation in BALCLUTHA was first as a WOOLSKIN BUYER.

139: Mentions his MOTHER dying when he was SIX. In childbirth.

142: Says he remembers her a little. “I can remember the stones falling on the coffin.”

155: Mentions his FATHER working sometimes as a RANGER for an OTAGO-based group to stop people killing possums.

162: States having an older SISTER, HELENE. And a younger SISTER.

177: Says her name is LYDIA. She has since died. HELENE lives near MELBOURNE.

197: Says when he left HIGH SCHOOL, he was awarded a proficiency certificate.

201: Sates he was fifteen when he left school.

206: States working for his FATHER who had begun a fruit and produce business in BALCLUTHA. Left and went to GORE when he was sixteen.

211: Declares he started his own business by that age…as a tradesman selling fruit and produce from CENTRAL OTAGO to retailers.

217: Says he was still doing that when war was declared (WWII).

222: Recalls going to the movies with his wife where they saw a film on the Great War and the conditions in the trenches.

234: Mentions enlisting with the AIRFORCE. 1942.

242: Tells how he met his wife, VERNA TRETHAWAY. At GORE. While he was learning to play guitar and the town was trying to set up an orchestra.

265: Says that after the orchestra meeting, they would go for a coffee.

271: Says they married in GORE. (1940)

283: Mentions having opened a new shop in GORE. Built it himself.

302: Says their honeymoon was spent in DUNEDIN, the EAST COAST, ARTHUR’S PASS and back again.

314: Mentions amalgamating his business with his opposition. They became COCKERILL & CAMPBELL.

322: Says that after a long time, he sold up his half to them and came up to TE ANAU.

327: Refers back to enlisting in 1942.

340: Says that after receiving orders, went to ROTORUA.

351: Recalls he was told to go to TAIERI to start elementary training. That’s where he learned to fly TIGER MOTHS.

360: Recalls flying solo after eight hours training.

375: Says it was in CHRISTCHURCH that he was trained to become a pilot.

378: Says when he was stationed at WHAUAPAI he learned to fly HUTCHINS planes.

390: Recalls being posted then to ESPRIT DE SANTO, NEW HEBRIDES.

395: Sent back to OHAKIA, near PALMERSTON NORTH where he learned to fly the PV1 and HUDSON.

400: Mentions occasionally being granted leave to get back to his wife and child in GORE.

413: States his group was posted to Number Two Squadron.

Side A Ends

Side B Starts

003: Says they landed in NEW HEBRIDES then GUADA CANAL

024: Talks about conducting low-level bombing in this area. ‘Just above the treetops.’

047: Describes how the low-level bombing was carried out.

079: Continues description of bombing with what each plane carried on a raid.

105: Talks about the first time he went out on a raid. Recalls saying ‘By the time I sat down in the pilot’s seat, I couldn’t give a damn.’

126: Says he pushed beyond FEAR once he was in the cockpit.

143: He gets up to show a photograph on the wall, so plenty of mic rattle. We discuss the photo of nine planes forming a semi-circle as a demonstration of an air raid bombing.

168: Back in his seat, he talks about including his experience in one of his BOOKS.

178: Says the airforce demands strict discipline.

187: States he was a pilot officer, then finished up a warrant officer.

189: Talks about three commissioners. Not too praisewortby.

209: Says that when the war ended, he was stuck on JAQUANITA BAY, NEW GUINEA, while NZ was celebrating Victory Day.

220: Recalls the relief of getting back home when war was over. Talks about a mayoral dinner being held.

232: On his return, he says he got straight back into business.

245: Talks about being in TE ANAU and recalls the TAWERA – the ship later owned by FIORDLAND TRAVEL. It had been used on the lake since 1891 (1899) to transport people to GLADE HOUSE for the start of the MILFORD TRACK.

269: Recalls visiting LAKE MANAPOURI which he thought ‘a beautiful lake’.

287: Tape stopped (someone using a lawn-mower outside) for a breather.

292: Re-started. Remembers deciding with LAWSON BURROWS to buy a boat, bring it up to TE ANAU, doing alterations and launching it with their business, FIORDLAND TRAVEL CO.

300: Talks about how he and LAWSON were in the local orchestra in GORE.

326: States there were few houses in TE ANAU then, apart from one or two on the lakefront.

329: Recalls GEORGE RADFORD had opened up a store at the end of MOKOROA STREET.

332: Says he decided to build a home in TE ANAU, so bought a section – where the LAKEFRONT BACKPACKERS stands now.

338: States he paid 675 pounds for the half-acre section.

344: Says he applied for building consent, even though there was nobody else around him.

352: Remembers that although he and his family were then still living in GORE, he visited every weekend and drove the boat so that LAWSON could have time off.

360: States that at that time, he was flying a TIGER MOTH in GORE. Has a commercial pilot’s licence. He also got a licence to drive a bus. It meant he had a licence to transport passengers by road, as well as in the air and on the water.

379: Talks about his children. Three BOYS, BARRY, VAUGHAN and GAVIN (deceased).

389: Says he has a large number of GRANDCHILDREN. And GREAT GRANDCHILDREN.

412: Referring back to earlier visits, says VERNA enjoyed the boating trips on the lake.

Tape 1 Side B Ends

Tape 2 Side A Starts

000: Some confusion about committees

034: Recalls there being few people around when he and LAWSON started their passenger boat service on LAKE TE ANAU in 1948.

042: Talks about cutting a track up the side of MT LUXMORE to set up a ski-way. Says the present DOC-administered track was cut by him.

059: States he built a hut directly below the present one.

066: Talks about being helped by a pilot from MOSSBURN, named BILL HEWETT.

092: Describes seeing HEWETT drop the timber posts about a mile from where they wanted them.

108: Mentions BEER’S (derelict) farm on LUXMORE.

133: Describes having a small generator for electricity in the hut.

140: Explains his plan for the ski-field. “It actually would’ve come right from the top of the peak and right down…not too sure…maybe about 600ft, a vertical drop, quite a bit any rate. We borrowed a thing from Mt Cook Tourist Company in Coronet Peak. (It included a motor) And Barry carried the motor up. I don’t know how he did it cos it was a heng of a heavy motor.”

158: Says he got BILL BLACK to airlift more materials (poles) for the proposed ski-run.

169: States they slung ropes between the poles ready for testing out the following weekend.

171: Explains that it snowed heavily and all the poles were bent with the weight of snow on the ropes.

180: For timeline responds to question about when this happened. Thinks early 1960s, possibly 1959.

187: Mentions FIORDLAND TRAVEL’S beginnings by speaking about the formation of the track at WILMOT PASS at DEEP COVE. (This was Les Hutchins’ first tourism venture)

197: Explains his initial involvement in setting up FIORDLAND TRAVEL. He was still in GORE and because the new company needed a bank account, he opened it with $100.00

200: Recalls saying to LAWSON “We’ll call it FIORDLAND TRAVEL. So that was written down….”

208: Sates the company had no money to start with apart from the $100.00. “I never got it back from LAWSON. He never bloody well paid me, the bugger.” (laughs)

214: Mentions one of his wartime gunners, HENRY FOX (son of DEREK FOX, of Maori TV) Describes how he and HENRY talked about Maori place names.

226 Recalls HENRY tell him that TE ANAU refers to CAVE. HENRY told him “You can bet your bottom dollar they didn’t name it the CAVE if there wasn’t a CAVE there.”

232: Recalls taking deerstalkers into the MIDDLE FIORD and coming back, close to the shore, there was a stream coming out after a heavy rainfall.

244: Says he pulled the boat ashore and walked up the stream.

248: Sidetracks to talking about the GLOW-WORMS.

264: Back to the stream…says he walked a bit and could see a small hole, then after getting in the water he could hear the waterfall and could see GLOW-WORMS there.

274: Recalls getting back to TE ANAU and saying to LAWSON there might be a cave at the stream.

276: States that when he got back from GORE the following weekend, LAWSON and a couple of ‘cobbers’ had found the waterfall and the CAVES.

283: Remembers greater excitement in discovering the AURORA CAVES. “I found them and named them the AURORA CAVES because of the sun shining down through the trees. It was shining onto a little bit of fog at the cave mouth and I thought that’s like an aurora.”

291: Recalls taking their first visitors up to the CAVES and realised it would be difficult for some people to crawl under the water and mentions thinking at the time that it was up to himself to improve access. “LAWSON was not over-imbibed with energy. He was very good at boiling the billy.”

298: Describes creating walkways with timber from the bush.

303: Says he took people in to where there’s now a large platform, though wasn’t then. Mentions using a COALMINER’S lamp and leading people to an area where they would lie down on the rocks. Then he would take the lights away and they were left in the darkness.

319: Recalls building boats in GORE to transport passengers into the CAVES but then had to increase the width of the entrance by using GELIGNITE.

329: Says he knew how to work explosives and would set up the cap and the fuse, light it and duck out of the CAVES for the boom. Then they would remove the collapsed ROCK.

345: States that people would then ask to go and see the CAVES so they organised two trips a day.

348: Says that was what strengthened their TOURISM company.

349: Mentions other developments “We’d developed the SOUTH FIORD up there. There’s another big waterfall up there and we’d put a track in there and I’d built a big wharf up there. We’d built wharves all around the LAKE.”

369: Tape recording disrupted

372: Remembers the fees they charged for the GLOW-WORM boat-trips were 7s/6d for the morning and 12s/6d for the afternoon.

377: Tape recording disrupted again.

404: Mentions buying the TAWERA followed by the CORSAIR.

413: Mentions LAWSON’S wife had died and he wanted to build a boat and go cruising. And that LAWSON asked him if he wanted to buy him out. (Timeline, 1967/68)

419: States that apart from not having the money to buy out his partner, he also wanted to do other things. He wanted to build ACCOMMODATION. “That when I built the place up on the hill.” (FIORDLAND HOTEL).

Tape 2 Side A Ends

Tape 2 Side B Starts

002: Explains reason for building the hotel. “Short of accommodation.”

019: Refers back to his passenger boat service. Talks about scouting round the lakes before finding the caves. Says he built a boat in GORE, able to carry sixteen passengers and ferry people to one of the main lakes, TE WAIOPANI (one of the HIDDEN LAKES).

040: Says he would take people overland to the jetty he built where the boat was launched and would take people all round it.

070: Mentions the MANUSKA (owned by MURRAY CARDNO) saying that he recently thought of suggesting to MURRAY that he expand his enterprise by opening up the HIDDEN LAKES to visitors.

126: Referring back to the FIORDLAND HOTEL, says he had already bought the land, so built about sixteen units on it. 160 beds.

144: Talks about building CAMPBELL’S AUTOLODGE in the 1970s.

163: Discusses his involvement in the SAVE LAKE MANAPOURI CAMPAIGN.

197: Says various people were involved in the campaign.

205: Mentions going to PARLIAMENT and talking to the then PM.

215: Remembers the PM told him “It’s only a lake. We’ll rectify any damage we create. And I said, ‘Yes, it’s taken 250,000 years to make it now. Have we got that time?’ So, any rate, he said ‘Right, we’ll rectify it.’ And he came down here.”

223: Laughs at the fact that chopped down trees which were expected to sink, didn’t.

262: Talks about an area around LAKE MANAPOURI where after the trees had been cut back, the area was just mud. “I bloody near drowned, it was just…eh…mud. The whole thing was just …phwoa…like that. They had a rope round me and dragged me on to the launch again.”

280: Says you had to be involved to save a ‘little bit of what was left of the world.’

296: Mentions the HYDRO scheme. (briefly)

332: Recalls the launch of the new power station when they opened up the floodgates and laughs at the fact that they realised they would have to build a new TUNNEL.

338: Recording stopped and re-started due to passing lawnmower.

343: In response to a question about his fellow townspeople, he says they don’t seem to have the wherewithal to develop TE ANAU as a tourist resort.

366: Says the area has the potential for more exciting things than bungy jumps.

400: Says they saved MANAPOURI but he’s keen to see major tourism developments in the area.

407: Recording ends.

Additional Information not recorded.

Eighty-five year old Wilson Campbell has been described by some as a visionary. When asked what his father’s interests were, eldest son Barry put top of the list: “Promoting Fiordland.”

Several promotional schemes have been devised by Campbell over the years. Not only his early tourism ventures with Lawson Burrows and later with wife, Verna, but he visualised some grand projects to develop tourism around Te Anau.

After his failed efforts to build a ski-field, Campbell was undeterred. He drew up a plan for a small railway which would have taken visitors along the lakefront, past the golf course, across the control gates, round to Brod Bay and then up to the top of Mt Luxmore, then down to meet the Waiau River at Beer’s Pool. Opposition to the proposal, he said, came from a strong conservation lobby and the Fiordland National Park Board. Despite this, he sought support from engineering consultants in Switerzland who, he said, allocated $10,000 to support his scheme. However, it was a battle he could not win.

Later still, in the 1980s, Campbell came up with a plan to use what’s commonly known as the ‘broom paddock’ - an eleven-acre piece of land between Luxmore Drive and the lake which is still lying empty and unused. Titled ‘Campbell’s Kingdom’ his vision was for a theme park along the lines of Disney World, but with a New Zealand theme.

“I was told then, by an American investor, that my plan would probably bring in millions of dollars annually to the town,” Campbell said. An outline of his plan is included with other documents in this file.

Wilson Campbell is also the author of two works of fiction, which he wrote and self-published in recent years. Their titles are:

“When Eyes Were Brightly Shining” and “Let the punishment Fit the Crime”.

Fiordland and Te Anau have been Wilson Campbell’s driving force for more than half a lifetime. “If I had the time over again, I wouldn’t have done anything differently,” he said.

M. Forrester